Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)

[ken barber]

Tkyrchncs,

 

Thanks for reviving this lively debate. Its a fun and challenging one. I agree completely with you statement that we already pay for those with out insurance. I do understand your problem with the government forcing you to buy something from a private vendor. Question do you have car insurance?

[Al Norris]

Yes, that's the precedence. And a very bad one, if you ask me.

 

So what could have been done, without mandating you buy insurance in order to drive?

 

Have an accident, that is your fault, and get charged with criminal negligence. Not your fault? No need to show insurance. The criminal charge only attaches if the accident is your fault and you have no insurance.

 

A prudent man has insurance.

 

But of course, that aspect can hardly work with medical insurance.

[ken barber]

I dont see the difference. If we have privatized healthcare than insurance is a must. Its not an option anymore. Those who choose not to have insurance are forcing my health care rates through the roof

[tkyrchncs]

It is the STATE that requires auto insurance, for the PRIVILEGE of driving a private vehicle, if in fact it is required.  In Virginia where I live you can pay an uninsured motorist fee and not have insurance.  Which means that when you buy insurance, you need a rider to cover uninsured drivers, if you want to be sure you can do something about your car if you're involved in an accident with one of them.  And the STATE is the entity issuing the license.  There is NOTHING in the Constitution that even HINTS that the Federal Government may require me to purchase anything from a private vendor, and the fundamental concept there is that the Federal Government is explicitly FORBIDDEN to do anything it is not SPECIFICALLY authorized to do. There are a number of options in terms of health insurance, and care for the uninsured.  We could choose not to provide health care at public expense for anyone not Social Security eligible.  If the hospitals or doctors take in charity cases, let it be with their OWN charity.  We could also choose to provide health care for everyone, and raise the taxes to accommodate that.  I don't see any practical difference between a tax and a required purchase.    

[seabird]

The Affordable Care Act or, as many people call it, Obmacare, is a fundamentally flawed piece of legislation that panders to certain groups for obvious reasons. Its main purpose, while admirable, was lost as amendments and concessions to pressure groups were added in hopes of gaining political support in both the public and Congress. Its main purpose was to supply a cheaper insurance to individuals by spreading the overall cost throughout the electorate. More and more groups were added to it in hope that enough rate payers could be collected to reduce the individual premiums. In that, it is much like a conventional insurance plan. The rub comes when pressure groups insisted on changes as the price of their support. What began as a useful tool to supply health care to individuals at a reasonable cost, soon became a honeybucket for groups out to gouge the government AND the public. Those groups were NOT all commercial interests, some were groups with a political agenda who had their knives and axes out for political revenge. The groups were NOT confined to any one political party, right OR left, but they all left their mark on the program, leaving it so flawed that it is unlikely to EVER be successful. Like Medicare, the regulations require that proverbial Philadelphia Lawyer to interpret them. There are so many holes in the documentation of the plan, that there are as many opinions on what it means as there are those who attempt to read it. Even those who wrote the &*(% thing cannot tell you what it means by now. Probably we should cut our losses and junk it and start over, but, that also, is unlikely to happen. The lawsuits and court interpretations will go on and on for generations and those who can, will opt out and those who cannot will be victimized into their graves. About the ONLY group who will come out ahead will be Big Pharma.

 

Charles Bird

SeaBird

[Billy Martin]

I will just repeat what someone else has said already. No where in the constitution is congress given the power to force anyone to buy anything from anyone. I believe it is correct to say that with SCOTUS decision, they have ruled that congress has unlimited powers. That's scarey.

 

I noticed Kentucky memtioned and I wonder if anyone actually checked the numbers in Kentucky. Of course they had a huge sign-up. Just how many of those that signed up for Obamacare actually signed-up for medicaid? Check the numbers for yourself. If a huge majority landed on medicaid, what good came for it? Those people could already walk into the ER and receive treatment. And anyone knows that takes a lot more government dollars to pay for anything than it does for private money.

 

I take offense at people saying members of the tea party are against the far left, progressive, liberal policies of this president just because they hate this president. I know people that are against more taxes, against obamacare, against allowing the black panthers to intimidate voters at the polls, against the IRS singling out groups because of their political view (that was the main thing that got Nixon into trouble) and denying their right to political speech just like the liberal groups, against radical gun control, and the uncontroled growth of the federal government. Damn, I just described the Tea Party. I guess I'm one of them then. Personally, I could give a rat's ass if the man is black, half-black, yellow, green, or white. I would never and could never vote for anyone of any race or gender that supported those policies. That's just the way it is.

 

It actually makes a huge difference if the penalty is a tax or not. If it isn't then the SCOTUS said it was unconstitutional and if it is, then it's unconstitutional since the bill didn't start in the House (it start in the senate).

 

Either way, soon it'll go under from its own weight.

 

I can't wait to see how everyone reacts when they see how much their premiums go up this fall. That in itself should assure the change of power in the senate where over 600 bills were left sitting on the Majority Leader's desk without a vote.

[seabird]

Billy Martin,

 

This "Affordable Care Act" has gone far beyond the political differences between the left and the right or even liberal and conservative, and you are quite correct in thinking that it might mean the end of our Republic. Unfortunately, we reached that point some years ago, the government we have today is more fascist than Il Duce ever thought of. It has its roots in the early parts of the last century, but the last six years have seen the trend accelerate tremendously. That is NOT meant to be a political statement because no one political party is exempt from blame. While I am a staunch conservative, I recognize that even the Conservatives have their faults and must accept a share of the blame.

 

 

There is no going back now, the harm has been done. What needs to be done now is to prevent it from getting any worse and that means we ALL will have to tighten our belts and pitch in to help, starting with your VOTE! Getting INVOLVED! Speaking OUT! Telling others just how shaky the situation IS! We are teetering on the brink of a disaster that could strike at any time. Our Nation's debt is so bad, should the Chinese call our debt, our dollar would shrink to less than ten cents on the dollar! Industry would stop in a matter of days. The lights would go out at about the same time. The "bread lines" of the post 1929 era would look like a Sunday School picnic. I am NOT being an alarmist, I am merely stating the facts as I understand them. I am just a poor old Engineer and I still add numbers as they are written on the page. Facts are facts and all the doublespeak accounting that our politicians use to stall any action cannot convince me that fifteen cents equals five dollars!

 

 

THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE, IT IS A SURVIVAL ISSUE!

 

 

Charles Bird

SeaBird

[ken barber]

I think the scare tactics of using terms like fascists, are the root problem in our politics. Our government is no where even remotely close to fascism, socialism or communism. Using those terms is what causes the left to get their panties in a wad because its just that scare tactics. The Tea Party has become well know for using scare tactics and that is the biggest  problem with it. To the point many statements have no basis in fact. I know the far left does it too.

 

Health Care cost Per Capita
2009             2010           2011           2012
$8163           $8417         $8680         $8798

[Wolfhighlander]

I'm going to use the term Obamacare and I'm not using it in a derogatory way.  The President calls it that, so I think that makes it a valid name, since he's the one who pushed for it.  I work in the Healthcare field.  The idea of healthcare for everyone is a good idea.  I know that it is common in many, if not most "Western" countries. 

 

There have been stories for years from those countries of people having to wait months for a procedure or types of exams unless they want to purchase private insurance or pay cash for the procedure.  This is not something that I have just heard somewhere, I've actually talked to people who have told me about this.  When I spent a month in the UK 15 years ago, I stayed at B&B's, which if you ever want to spend time touring the country, that is the way to go.  Anyway when I visited, it was in May, which is just before the real tourist season begins and many times I was the only guest, so I got to talk to some of the people and some of them confirmed that at times that was the case.

 

Here in the US, I don't believe that we will run into that sort of thing, at least I hope not.  One of our biggest issues is getting approval for a procedure from HMO's.  I work in a level 2 Trauma Center and for years, our ER has been the primary care physician (PCP) for the slightest malady, read cold.  Obamacare's idea of having the insurance so that you can have a PCP that is not the ER, is a good one.  When we are inundated with minor things that a PCP could have taken care of, then there is the potential, that patient care for more serious problems can be affected.  I have walked through our ER and seen it so full of people that they have beds in the hall with a paper sign on the wall saying "Hall Bed 1", etc. We have over 50 ER beds and 2 Trauma beds, so it's not like we are tiny hospital.  Even with Obamacare we are still being used as the PCP, of primarily, and this may irritate some people, Illegal Aliens.  They are not eligible to purchase healtcare through Obamacar,e so we are still seeing the same sort of thing, that hasn't changed.  So for us, we haven't seen a big change in that, due to Obamacare.   But part of that is because out Health system (we ahve 6 hospital's in LA and Orange County), has worked at being proactive and preparing ahead of time.  For example, we starting implenting HIPAA rules before it became law.

 

It used to be common for a doctor to encourage their children to think about being a doctor too.  That is no longer the case, most would prefer their children go into something else.  One of my very close friends's dad was a doctor here at the hospital I work at, my friend was a Radiologic Tech like I was, and at one time, there were thoughts of them both being in the Doctor business, but he eventually told his son not to be a doctor.  He went with his dad's advice.  The reimbursement rates are very low for docs nowadays, and on top of that, there are large malpractice insurance rates and in a hugely litigious state like California, the rates are gigantic, because people think that they should sue at the drop of a hat.

 

The law, I believe is flawed and I believe it needs to be fixed.  I can't see it being repealed, but it does needs to be fixed, so that it is more helpful to the people that need it.  Promises were made and i will point one out made by the President.  When he first pushed it, he said that you wouldn't have to change your doctors and there a plenty of sound bites proving that he said it.  He said this several times.  Later he added in one of his speeches, "as long as your insurance doesn't change."  He said that as if he had always meant that and he kept reiterating that, even in the face of proof that he had never said that before, until he finally had to admit that members might have to change doctors, I  think that was a total backpedal on his part, trying to  CYA.

 

I have heard from friends and relatives how they have had health insurance issues since it was enacted, many times the issue was that they could no longer use the doctor that they had used for years and were comfortable with, as the President had promised them, and their insurance rates have jumped as well in at least some cases. 

 

It should have been better thought out.  The launch for signing up was an utter disaster and as I don't have to deal with it, as I have private insurance, i don't know if that has changed much, I suspect it may changed, but I have no direct knowledge of that.  Maybe they should have waited a year, ironed out the problems more, and then more of the real effects of the Act would have come out, instead of after the fact. After all of that, then enact it.  If the Republicans want to do something about it, it should be more in the manner of fixing it, not repealing it, unless they come up with a whole, well tested better plan.  Remember that not all of the Act have been implemented yet, I believe there are more parts of it to be implented in 2015.  I think the parts of the Act going online in 2015 has to do with requiring small businesses to pay for part or all of the insurance for their employees.  Many such business are worried that the costs of this will cause a serious negative effect on their business.  There are a lot of them that run on a thin margin and this requirement could erase most or all of this margin.

 

Fix the act, but don't waste time repealing it.

[ken barber]

Wolfhighlander,

Once again you present a very logical well thought out statement. One very hard to argue with. I think we are in agreement, the ACA or Obamacare is flawed, and does need fixing. Repealing it is back pedaling to a bigger problem. If the Politicians in DC would work together to iron out better plan I would back it regardless of which party endorses it. Its imperative we move beyond the partisan politics and begin putting this country back on track. The continued blame this party, blame that party is the problem, compromise is the only way forward.