New Tax plan or more of the same from the great swamp

[ken barber]

So here is a New York times article on The Republican Tax Plan

I have read many articles and keep coming up with the same conclusion: There is no real change when you look at the big picture. its still more tax cuts for the wealthy and Corporations. And in some cases even more taxed for the middle class. 

Please read the whole article and do your own research and then tell me how this is a good thing. I don't see anything good in that not offset be something else evil.

This is all smoke and mirrors. If you don't read the whole article before you comment I will just ignore you.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/27/us/politics/six-charts-to-explain-the-republican-tax-plan.html

[Al Norris]

On 11/30/2017 at 9:51 AM, ken barber said:

This is all smoke and mirrors. If you don't read the whole article before you comment I will just ignore you.

Let me get this straight, you are saying that should I actually read the bill(s) that are passed or before the two Houses, and form my opinion based upon those documents and DO NOT read your NYT hit piece, you will ignore what I say?

You are basing your comments upon an article that came out at the end of September, fully 2 months before the finalized versions were presented to the Senate floor for a vote. Further, that article completely ignored the House version, which is different in several aspects. Bothe versions were still in committee and being marked up, at the time.

But should I not read the hit piece, I will be ignored... Mighty fine smoke and mirrors there, Ken.

How about you read a more current article, that debunks just about every thing the NYT article tried to foist off on the American Public:

GOP tax plan reaction debunked: Here's what will - and won't - hurt Syracuse area filers | syracuse.com

[ken barber]

So the article you posted uses a small county in New York to explain the entire tax plan for the country. Deductions are only one part of the formula, the change in tax brackets is what has me the most concerned, for individuals. As well as some of the cuts to corporate tax rates.

Great Article if you want people to focus on the fact that it appears their taxes will go down. Smoke and mirrors, indeed. 

Not to mention that many researchers are saying this tax plan will add to the debt. According to the JTC (Joint Tax Commission) which claims to be a non-partisan group, estimates the tax plan will add $1,000,000,000,000 (Thats a lot of zeros) after the effects of the supposed economic growth. This from the party that effected a government shutdown over raising the debt ceiling just a few short years back. Do we just forget about that. 

For being an alleged "very successful" businessman Mr. Trump has forgotten rule number one. Cutting income never solves debt, its basic math. 1-2+(-1).

The article you posted Allen focuses only on a very small portion of the new Tax Bill and that's how it the bill will affect individuals. As a whole we need to look at the bigger picture this bill is just dumping more debt onto the generations behind us. But have no fear at least they won't have to pay an inheritance tax. 

My final question on this. What happen to the "BALANCED BUDGET" chant of the Republican Party. Interesting how they get their base all riled up with grand ideas and then just throw them out the window when they actually have the ability to make something happen. 

This is just more garbage coming from a party that seems to be completely inept at actual governing.  The GOP is imploding and grasping at straws to make some big change to appease its base and the right wing media is feeding right into it. Go luck with your lower taxes folks your gonna need it to pay for privatized education, increases health care costs, don't forget the gas masks you will need to breath outside as the EPA gets dismantled. These cuts are being paid for by cutting the very agencies that are protecting us from the profiteering that caused the great depression and the great recession. Next up in the Trump administration agenda lets roll back Dodd-Frank and trust that the bankers and wall street moguls will make the right decisions. That has worked so well in the past. 

 

 

[Al Norris]

21 hours ago, ken barber said:

So the article you posted uses a small county in New York to explain the entire tax plan for the country.

Sorta like the article you posted that pertains to people in big cities with high tax rates, explaining how it affects the entire country.

You folks in the city could give a damn about us, here in flyover country. So why should we give a damn about you?

As far as the JTC is concerned, they have always argued that ANY tax decrease, at ANY time in the past, will add to the debt. They have been wrong many times. Enough that I ignore most of what these so-called non-partisan groups say.

The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the entire industrialized world. That alone has driven companies out of our tax sphere. Yet any time it is suggested that lowering that tax rate, the JTC jumps in, screaming about how losing that revenue will hurt the economy by lowering taxes and adding to the national debt.

They completely overlook that by keeping the existing corporations here, and possibly luring others here, the tax intake actually goes up. I believe, this is intentional, and always plays into the hands of those (from either party) that want to increase the tax rate (to pay for their own "little" projects), or at the least, keep the status quo.

If you measure your success in wealth, why does the .gov think it can just confiscate it at your death? Why shouldn't you just be able to leave it to your own posterity? Inheritance Tax? Good riddance.

Balanced Budget? Get real Ken. Moderates have known from the beginning that it was never going to happen. It's a myth. A fairy tale. As long as any .gov has the power to tax, it will never have to balance the books. We can always justify increased spending. Which always leads to increased taxes. It is a self fulfilling prophesy. The only way to stop it is a constitutional amendment, and neither House will actually pass such a thing.

Fact is, you (not you alone. There are many, many others who sing in this choir) keep harping on your scare tactics about health care (costs of which have skyrocketed, Thanks Mr. Obama), and the EPA (which can keep someone from farming his own land, because an inordinate amount of rainfall has created a very temporary "wetland"), or that the educational system will cost more (as if those costs have ever not increased - seen the price of a college textbook lately?)... I'll simply keep ignoring the screaming.

So what if the GOP is imploding? Who really cares? The Dems are doing the same. Again, who cares? Both parties have left the majority of (moderate) Americans behind in their quest for dominance.

Blather on about Trump, all you want. I don't care. I didn't vote for either him or Hillary. At the time, I kept hearing folks tell me to vote for the lessor of the two evils. Bah! Voting for evil is still voting for evil, greater or lessor.