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Kandric world discussion


Kyle Aarons

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5 hours ago, Zergrinch said:

I'm not convinced the Grandpa is in much favor with the White Dragons at this point. 😁

I agree that Kandric is extremely resourceful and we really don't have any idea how powerful he truly is and what he knows. So, I have to speculate based on what we've seen. In my view, one of Kandric's weaknesses (temper aside) is that he likes to play with his food. He traps them, tortures them, taunts them, and talks to them. He doesn't go immediately for the knockout. So in terms of decisiveness, I would give Conner the definite edge (look how Conner bulldozed the green dragon duke Gosanteal).

While I concede the fact that Kandric's had a lot of diverse teachers, I would argue that "Jack of All Trades, Master of None" could be conceivably be applied to him, while Conner would be the master of one. I argue that this also gives Conner an edge. As Bruce Lee said, "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." 😂

Plus there's the inconvenient in-universe fact that Mages (generally) outgun Shamen in terms of magic...

===

Kaylaria's children are:

  1. Bayne (elf father)
  2. Conner (forest elf father Cuver)
  3. Darmoth (river elf merchant father Scoral); captured by Frexla; probably dead or mutilated
  4. Rathiter (river elf merchant father Scoral); captured by Frexla; probably dead or mutilated
  5. Meggie (forest elf merchant father): only girl; constantly with Kaylaria, probably an acolyte priestess in training
  6. Gellor (forest elf merchant father): Kandric's favorite sibling - no mention since Chapter 31.
  7. Kandric (human miner father Kyvin)

 

Ya done forgot Aster on your list! lol 

If I were the White Dragons, I'd be convinced that Rovanall was sent by the Alphar to set them up at this point. A prince of the Alphar shows up with a couple of "captives" and claims to have defected and wants revenge on his son. They send their crown prince to investigate and BAMN he's dead and now their national treasure is in the custody of the Alphar. On top of that they've been losing more dragons ever since this whole thing has started, and now there's word of an alliance between the Silver dragons and other dragons like the Reds. 

Rovenall would probably be seen as one of the worst mistakes they ever made. 


Please, characters cannot talk about Kandric without referring to him as a Godling at this point lol. As far as mortals go he might as well be a master of everything. In comparison to some of his scarier Spirit Teachers he's probably a gifted but inexperienced pupil, but as far as anyone in the mortal realms go he might as well already be a god. 

Normally Mages are more powerful than Shaman, but considering that Kandric has the most extensive knowledge of Shaman magic of anyone in the mortal realm, I'd say Kandric easily has the edge over his brother on that front. Even Glaster finds himself dwarfed by his own pupil's ability by this point. In a pure physical sparring match, Connor would probably have it. In a contest of Magical ability though, Connor will find himself second, unless that elder god NyQuil Nighttime Relief over there has been teaching him behind the scenes. 

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Dang it. I'm... er... gonna chalk it up to him doing nothing but sit around in a castle. Yeah, that's it 😅

Incidentally, if Aster is placed first, the first 4 actually come in alphabetical order: Aster, Bayne, Conner, and Darmoth, with Rathiter breaking the combo. I wonder why Kaylaria chose to do so when she's got a great pattern going :)

I also noticed only recently that dragon names start with the first letter of their color. All Green dragon names start with G, all Black dragon names start with B, all White dragon names start with W, and all Red dragon names start with R. The Sand dragons (X) and the Silver dragons (M) seem to be the exceptions.

 

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1 hour ago, Zergrinch said:

Dang it. I'm... er... gonna chalk it up to him doing nothing but sit around in a castle. Yeah, that's it 😅

I'm going to have to try to nail down a timeline of the story, cause I'm telling you Aster has only been with King Wyhrem for like a week tops. It just feels longer cause the chapters both take a long time to make and are absurdly long. Yes, his brothers have been VERY busy that week, but it's just not accurate to characterize him as sitting around doing nothing. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Zergrinch said:

Incidentally, if Aster is placed first, the first 4 actually come in alphabetical order: Aster, Bayne, Conner, and Darmoth, with Rathiter breaking the combo. I wonder why Kaylaria chose to do so when she's got a great pattern going :)

Kaylaria didn't name either Aster or Bayne actually. If you recall, she never even got to see either of them after they were born cause her father took them away before she had the chance. Aster stayed with Rovanall as a servant for about 28 years and Bayne went to go live with the dark elf side of the family. Then Kaylaria's husband was killed by Quavis's dad in a framed accident, which resulted in Kaylaria breaking that whole no using magic thing and Aster getting kicked out. 

Kaylaria doesn't even know Bayne exists now that I think about it. Rovanall only told her about the one son. I also do believe Aster is the oldest of all the brothers, with Bayne being his twin. Not that it really matters. Basically nobody in the story considers her a good mother lol. She can pop out some super powerful kids, but man she's utterly inept as a parent. The Alphar court all but said any future kids she has are NOT going to be raised by her. I wouldn't say she's quite as bad as her father Rovanall, but you can tell the apple didn't fall far from the tree in terms of her powers of common sense. 

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We've beaten that particular topic to death, so I'm moving on to something else.

King Wyrhem is upset at Kandric gallivanting around Eagleonia with a large combined forces army, killing dragons willy-nilly. I can't say I understand why he's so mad.

The army is cleaning up a White Dragon infestation on his lands, and is in the process of rescuing  abductees from Slome -- a city that Wyrhem neglected -- from dark forces that took over Rolling Dale -- yet another city Wyrhem neglected. He's pretty pathetic as a king, and I can't sympathize with him at all. 

The narrative wants to make it seem that Kandric is in the wrong and Wyrhem is right to feel aggrieved, but I just can't agree with that point of view. 

Besides, he feels like this makes him look bad to other nations, but the nations that matter are either in that alliance (Alphar, Garm, Black Rapids, Illorc, Red Dragon, Silver Dragon, Bandurlok's faction of the Black Dragons), or actively fighting against him (Mordor warlords, Green Dragons, Bassork's faction of the Black Dragons, White Dragons). There's really nobody left to look down on him since they already look down on him. 😂

As an aside, any guesses as to his guild rating and main field? He's got to be plenty powerful, maybe at or close to legendary echelon, in a world where asskicking equals authority. But so far he's just barked orders and stabbed a dragon with a magic sword. So maybe, Swordsman? Definitely not a caster type, yeah? Not a mage, druid, or warrior since no spellbook. Not an animal adept since no pets. Not a mystic since no potions. Not a shaman or sorcerer since he wears metal armor... 😂

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56 minutes ago, Zergrinch said:

King Wyrhem is upset at Kandric gallivanting around Eagleonia with a large combined forces army, killing dragons willy-nilly. I can't say I understand why he's so mad.

The army is cleaning up a White Dragon infestation on his lands, and is in the process of rescuing  abductees from Slome -- a city that Wyrhem neglected -- from dark forces that took over Rolling Dale -- yet another city Wyrhem neglected. He's pretty pathetic as a king, and I can't sympathize with him at all. 

The narrative wants to make it seem that Kandric is in the wrong and Wyrhem is right to feel aggrieved, but I just can't agree with that point of view. 

Besides, he feels like this makes him look bad to other nations, but the nations that matter are either in that alliance (Alphar, Garm, Black Rapids, Illorc, Red Dragon, Silver Dragon, Bandurlok's faction of the Black Dragons), or actively fighting against him (Mordor warlords, Green Dragons, Bassork's faction of the Black Dragons, White Dragons). There's really nobody left to look down on him since they already look down on him. 😂

Now this is an interesting interpretation of King Wyhrem. I actually agree with him! It would not have been much effort on Kandric's end to give King Wyhrem a heads up that his lands are getting invaded and that he is going to intercept it. We know this cause they already SENT diplomats to king Wyhrem. I also like that it shows Kandric not being unquestionably perfect in everything he does lol. I like that he's making rookie mistakes and is going to get a good scolding for it. Kid needs as many authority figures who can put him in his place as he can get. It's what's going to keep him from going the way of that one girl who ended up catching a white dragon loogie. 

Basically, no self respecting Nation would want someone to wage war within their own boarders without consulting them, even if there is no ill will attached. He is well within his right to get that upstart prince in his presence and lay down the law with him. I'd even say it would be a beneficial experience for Kandric and give him a lesson in what it really means to lead people like he has been. 100% looking forward to Kandric and Wyhrem's meeting.  

As for these cities he's been neglecting, I'm going to have to hard disagree with the framing of that. 

King Wyhrem has been deeply infiltrated and sabotaged by a very smart and well thought out conspiracy, courtesy of the Green Dragons and Gambra's crew. We do not know just how many transformed Green Dragon agents are in King Wyhrem's court at this point, but it was strongly hinted that his former Healthman from much earlier in the story was one of them. Not only have they infiltrated his courts, they have all but entirely taken over local governments while laying low up till now. This conspiracy probably killed his wife, kidnapped his kids, and left him entirely in the dark while managing to clue him into almost none of it. 

King Wyhrem is not a dumb man. His every appearance in the story shows that he is a thoughtful and dedicated leader. What it seems like is he was being heavily insulated from what was going on by this conspiracy. Even Glaster couldn't find the root of it while he was there. Hell the only reason we know there are green dragon infiltrators is cause that one dumbass decided to try to assassinate the King while in a room filled with high echelon beings and MULTIPLE siblings of Kandric. Had that dragon not spilled the beans he'd probably still be on the back foot. 

So yeah I wouldn't say he's been neglectful. Terribly sabotaged and out maneuvered by a conspiracy who knows how many years in the making, but not neglectful. Neglectful implies that he knew and did nothing, not that he was terribly misinformed and undercut at every turn by spies and infiltrators. Now that he does knows his nation is deeply infiltrated and is in danger, it's absolutely his responsibility to see to it that this is dealt with. Part of that is going to include this meeting with Kandric and coordinating with him to root out these dark mages and green dragons that have been causing so much turmoil.  

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I don't think he's negotiating from a position of power at all. That little army of his is probably no match for Kandric's, and he would probably lose if they duel (though Kandric would not want to kill him lest he kills Glaster too), so I was expecting a little humility and, dare I say, gratitude, to those who are cleaning up his house 😅

My unfavorable opinion of Wyhrem stems from his failure as a king (people are going to spy on you; you need to have counterespionage in place, and he didn't tap Protector's Keep for that), as well as a failure of a father (his son's crypt got raided and he didn't know? His sons were swapped and all he could do was admonish him?) Sure, Glaster didn't catch it either, but Glaster is not Klandon's father, and he didn't know him personally beforehand.

He's not a bad person, I agree. His heart is in the right place. But I still think he's incompetent 😅

Regarding the dragon changeling, I don't think the transformation was planned. He was probably caught off guard by the dragon death, which was of a great green dragon, and couldn't hold his shape. So once again, Wyhrem's bacon was saved by House Welleras, this time by Conner.

I still look forward to the meeting between boy and king. Just not for the same reasons. We're long overdue the brothers' reunion (Kandric knows of Aster and Glaster bedded him, but it's unclear if they're acquainted).

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14 minutes ago, Zergrinch said:

I don't think he's negotiating from a position of power at all. That little army of his is probably no match for Kandric's, and he would probably lose if they duel (though Kandric would not want to kill him lest he kills Glaster too), so I was expecting a little humility and, dare I say, gratitude, to those who are cleaning up his house 😅

He's absolutely negotiating from a position of power! In fact, I dare say he's one of the few people who could put Kandric in his place. Know why? Cause he's got Glaster lol. Glaster said himself that he's not about to put himself at odds with the King, and if he were going to have to pick a side he'd have to side with Wyhrem. It mirrors a discussion that Kandric had with Jamon regarding Vondum. Kandric is deeply loyal, and he's not about to go against Glaster, and by extension, King Wyhrem. 

The power of King Wyhrem's military isn't going to mean anything to Kandric. That's not how you deal with him in the first place. You come at Kandric where he is weakest, his age and inexperience dealing with diplomatic situations. As powerful and gifted as Kandric is, this is not something he's going to be able to swing his frozen flame into and get a result he wants. He's going to need to own up to his rookie mistakes and forge an agreement with Wyhrem, which I think will do him a lot of good and help him grow as a leader and a person. I see this as ultimately being a good thing for Kandric. 

24 minutes ago, Zergrinch said:

My unfavorable opinion of Wyhrem stems from his failure as a king (people are going to spy on you; you need to have counterespionage in place, and he didn't tap Protector's Keep for that), as well as a failure of a father (his son's crypt got raided and he didn't know? His sons were swapped and all he could do was admonish him?) Sure, Glaster didn't catch it either, but Glaster is not Klandon's father, and he didn't know him personally beforehand.

He's not a bad person, I agree. His heart is in the right place. But I still think he's incompetent 😅

I'd say that's a different argument than him being neglectful. 

While I don't agree with this interpretation either, I'd say this is probably closer to the truth of the matter than him neglecting his duties. It is true that it is his responsibility to have counterespionage in place. I even said his nation has been absolutely compromised and it has resulted in what is likely the assassination of his wife and the kidnapping of his two kids. I would like to point out though that his opponents are ancient and powerful, with closely guarded secrets that nobody, not even other dragons, were aware about. Even the Silver Dragons with the most powerful Mindmaster in the mortal Realms did not know that there are shapeshifting Greens infiltrating Eagleonia. The most they knew was that some Dark Mage named Gambra was making moves and training dark mages behind the scene.

No nation saw what the Green Dragons were doing. They've been making this plan for a very long time and have held on to magic that other nations have long since forgotten. They've even skillfully set up a fallguy in Gambra, so that anyone who'd look into this conspiracy would think she was the one pulling the strings and not them. We the reader have the advantage of seeing it from an overhead perspective, but you also have to put yourself in the King's position. There was simply not enough evidence to even hint that this was Green dragons doing, and anyone who would be able to tell him otherwise was getting eliminated with ease. 

Rather than seeing Wyhrem as incompetent, I see the Green Dragons as playing a fantastic game of espionage that has only now been unraveled, whether it be by that one dragon's hubris or him not being able to hold his form do to the dragon death. In fact, I would not be surprised if Kandric's own army has some hidden green dragons in their midst. 

Now that Wyhrem is aware of what is happening, he can properly take steps to root out the problem. One of those steps will be having that meeting with Kandric. 

 

56 minutes ago, Zergrinch said:

I still look forward to the meeting between boy and king. Just not for the same reasons. We're long overdue the brothers' reunion (Kandric knows of Aster and Glaster bedded him, but it's unclear if they're acquainted).

Glaster said at one point he had one of them in the morning and the other in the evening. He's sweating fuckin bullets cause he's had a very strict no bedding above my station policy for awhile now, and he's fucked that up at LEAST twice now,  three times if you include Chark. Man beddin so many royals on accident it's gettin ridiculous lol. 

If I recall, they've seen each other in passing in Protectors Keep, and Aster's had a one sided rivalry with Kandric for awhile now. Kandric probably knows Aster the same way he knew Vondum before he actually tracked him at the start of the story. They've met but they haven't really talked. 

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Gambra is the fall girl? I mean, Monarch was in league with her, and discarded her like a soiled rag. And now you're saying the greens may be doing the same? 😅

You know, the latest chapter changed my opinion of Gardagam. If the Drow were truly framed and Under River was innocent, then he might be on a mission of redemption, only allying with the greens (and doing bad things to Klandon) out of convenience. We haven't had anything that gave him a point of view, something that Kyle did for Monarch (one of my favorite Chapters) and even Gambra.

Still, there is poetic symmetry in Kandric the shaman squaring off against Gardagam the dark shaman, and Conner the Mage to take on Gambra the Dark Mage. Aster and Bayne will just have to be on the sidelines since I don't remember a powerful Dark Animal Adept or Dark Sorcerer villain... 😂 

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11 minutes ago, Zergrinch said:

Gambra is the fall girl? I mean, Monarch was in league with her, and discarded her like a soiled rag. And now you're saying the greens may be doing the same? 😅

Oh absolutely. No doubt about it. Gambra is powerful for sure, but the writing is on the wall when it comes to her time in this story. Her resources and her highest ranked people are dropping like flies and her role in the Green Dragon's scheme is definitely wrapping up. For the greens, this crazy bitch is just a means to an end and a convenient idiot to distract everyone while they do their thing. I would not be surprised if they are just waiting to stab her in the back. She's certainly unlikable enough. 

I'm not sure about Gardagam. Part of me is thinking something along the lines of what you're saying, while another part of me thinks he might just be one of those undercover Green Dragons. The last thing they want is the Drow coming back, and what better way to do that than pose as a controversial figure who's further dividing people on Drow. That's not to say we can't have drow with multiple political stances, we have plenty of examples of that with us humans, but it would be a genius move to pretend to be an Evil Drow to further throw off the scent from green dragons. 

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I don't know about Gambra. There was this plot line about the gods being concerned that the demon Lords would recruit her to be among their number, and thus they wanted to recruit Kandric to their side as a counterweight.

Hasn't been touched on in ages, but it's still there.

I somehow don't see green dragons as the big bad. Kandric and now Conner have shown their ability to wipe the floor with even royal green dragons. Yes, the sudden revelation that they can polymorph increases their threat level (and your level of paranoia, lol) but I don't see them as major threats to our heroes by this point.

Maybe some lore about Gardagam and his relationship to the Oldsurns will be revealed in Crags, but honestly I'm not holding my breath. The mention of both might just be an Easter Egg.

Also, I seriously doubt Kandric's army has undercover green dragons in high positions. There are strong Mindmasters in that lot, and there has been a metric ton of dragon deaths that have washed over the area. Any incognito shifters would have reverted by now.

 

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One thing that really caught my attention and imagination in this chapter was the segment about Perth getting his magic remolded into a different Field, as well as using some of his magic to slow down his aging. There is a lot to unpack there. 

First is the idea of sacrificing some excess magic to age like someone from a higher race. That fascinates me and makes me wonder what else could be altered with this process? Could you use it to grant someone more subfields than they normally would have had? Are we perhaps looking at how Mythlings got to be as powerful as they are? Could you, with enough molding and excess magic, raise someone up to effectively be a higher race being than before? It does sound like the magic needs to be unutilized and untamed for it to really work, but if you could figure out how to reliably infuse a being with magic and keep molding it to your specifications, I'd say even forging a god wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities here. 

 

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The concept of changing fields isn't new -- it was already done in Sands of Time, although in the de-canonized version. What's new is the idea of permanently sacrificing magic power to extend lifespan. Prior to that, I believe the only way to do it is to get bonded to someone with a long lifespan (e.g. Glaster) or drink a potion (e.g. Vondum).

Since these options are available to humans, I wonder why long lived humans don't dominate everyone else. After all, Kyle has confirmed that humans learn much faster than longer-lived races due to their time orientation.

As for forging a god, the only confirmed method to this point was for the would-be deity to gather enough worshippers, so they get empowered by some kind of faith power.

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Never actually read the Sands of Time thing. I found Kandric saga on other sites and didn't know it had spinoff stuff till much later. With that said though, I have no doubt that such concepts were already in the works before it was mentioned in Kandric. Kyle likes to lay down a lot of groundwork and really get into the nitty gritty of how things work in his universe. 

I was referring more to the idea of becoming very powerful rather than actual deification. Though if all a deity needs is worshipers then Kandric is well on his way to becoming one without the gods help at this point lol. 

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Boy you guys are going at it hot and heavy! Lol.  It is wonderful to see such in depth thought and analysis about such a detailed story.  
 

due to the fact that I have a lot more knowledge of what is happening in the background, I can not get involved with this discussion directly without revealing what is to come.  However…

I have noticed a common theme in your discussions that I think you are both making a mistake with.  You are both looking at peoples motives while also knowing what is going on elsewhere.  Most of the characters have no idea what’s happening in other areas.  Take the King.  Currently he has no real idea about the WHY of what Kandric is doing, you both do.  You have to keep that in mind when thinking about motives.  
 

as for the plot against the king and his family.  The question should not be why the king reacted the way he did.  But why was the plot put in place to begin with?  
 

well that should open up a new can or worms.  Lol

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1 hour ago, Emperor Roland said:

I have noticed a common theme in your discussions that I think you are both making a mistake with.  You are both looking at peoples motives while also knowing what is going on elsewhere.  Most of the characters have no idea what’s happening in other areas.  Take the King.  Currently he has no real idea about the WHY of what Kandric is doing, you both do.  You have to keep that in mind when thinking about motives.  
 

as for the plot against the king and his family.  The question should not be why the king reacted the way he did.  But why was the plot put in place to begin with?

Well if that one green dragon who spilled the beans is any indication, at least part of the motivation behind the plot against the King seemed to have been reclaiming their homeland that they lost in the Dragon Wars. Which isn't exactly new information since both the Reds and Greens have been trying to make a homeland for themselves since back when Monarch and Bandurlok were still having their pissing contest at the start of the story. 

As far as how the interaction with the King and Kandric is going to go, I can make some inferences on how I think it'd go even if I don't know what they're aware of or not. While Kandric has a deep hatred for those he views as spoiled and undeserving of their position, he has a massive amount of respect for Nobility. This was probably something drilled into him by Glaster. On top of that, the King is blood bonded with and is a superior of Glaster, which would give what he has to say that much more weight for Kandric. 

Now, I have no question in my mind, once King Wyhrem learns of why Kandric is doing what he's doing in full, he will gladly sign off on it and join him in his efforts. The king is a smart man, and I'm betting with that loose lipped Green giving him some of the details on the green dragon's schemes, he will be all the more willing to team up with Kandric and his Army. First however, he's going to give him a stern talking to about his mistakes in this operation so far, like not notifying the nation you're bringing your army into. Like I said, not only does he have every right to do so, it'll also be a fantastic learning experience for Kandric.  

 

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I have not recently read the older chapters, but based on my recollection, the plot was to create a puppet king to do their bidding. Their, being Monarch (who's got Gambra in his pocket), the greens, the blacks led by Prince Bassork, and Gardagam. I do not recall if the Warlords of Morden are involved, or perhaps I'm confusing it with Monarch who used to be a warlord himself.

And so, they had Zoldon poisoned, and spirited away, and Gardagam put a shamanic tattoo on him to remote control him.

And then later on, they swapped Zoldon and Klandon, with the goal to eventually make Zoldon king by eliminating Wyhrem.

In the meantime, instead of killing Klandon, they somehow decided to train him as a living statue. For reasons that were not explained. And then somehow he got away, found himself at Aster's doorstep, and the rest is history.

Okay, I confess I am not quite sure what the plot is at this point. Whatever it was, the story's moved far beyond this point, since we're now talking about demon lords and primal gods 😅😅😅

 

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I think King Wyhrem hurt his position pretty bad with the letter he wrote to Kandric.

Yes, he was pissed and probably had the right to be so.

However, he asked for justification for the death of a major demon, and Kandric is about to show the letter to Mathard, and considering how much the Garm and Alphar hate the demon lords, he is now really in danger of being considered a demon lover.

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2 hours ago, Togego said:

I think King Wyhrem hurt his position pretty bad with the letter he wrote to Kandric.

Yes, he was pissed and probably had the right to be so.

However, he asked for justification for the death of a major demon, and Kandric is about to show the letter to Mathard, and considering how much the Garm and Alphar hate the demon lords, he is now really in danger of being considered a demon lover.

That is an interesting angle I hadn't thought of, but I don't think Wyhrem is in danger of being confused for a demon lover. He has been in contact with the Alphar and Garm since they came out of hiding, and any misunderstandings like that could be easily dealt with. If you recall, pretty much every adult in Kandric's entourage were also deeply concerned with their Premier picking a fight with Frexla. Not because they like her, but because fighting/killing her could spark something akin to the Mythling wars.

There was also the fact that Kandric was doing all this within Wyhrem's lands without ever consulting him or establishing diplomatic ties, which I think is where the lion share of Wyhrem's frustration is at the moment.   

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/29/2021 at 6:33 PM, Demented said:

That is an interesting angle I hadn't thought of, but I don't think Wyhrem is in danger of being confused for a demon lover. He has been in contact with the Alphar and Garm since they came out of hiding, and any misunderstandings like that could be easily dealt with. If you recall, pretty much every adult in Kandric's entourage were also deeply concerned with their Premier picking a fight with Frexla. Not because they like her, but because fighting/killing her could spark something akin to the Mythling wars.

There was also the fact that Kandric was doing all this within Wyhrem's lands without ever consulting him or establishing diplomatic ties, which I think is where the lion share of Wyhrem's frustration is at the moment.   

Even if there has not been any direct contact between Wyhrem and Kandric, some Garm/Alphar representative have made contact in his name and have provided information on why Kandric is there. So his presence is hardly a surprise. I think the tone and anger/exasperation expressed in his letter go too far and he should instead be grateful that Kandric his helping him with the cleanup of foreign elements such as Dark mage/mystics, Daemon channeler and White/Green/Black dragons.

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