Bullying

[Anjobranco]

Bullying, what are your opinions on this one.

The how and the whys, the reasons for being a bully, and what makes someone be a target of bullying and what can you do to prevent this.

 

http://www.bullying.org/

 

http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/school-bullying-statistics.html

 

http://www.antibullying.eu/

 

http://www.schoolbullying.eu/en

[Emperor Roland]

Well Anjo, you certainly know how to pick them.  personally i decided to tackle this one, since i know a particular gun nut that is going to go after your other one, as soon as he is done writing his small book in response!  LOL!

 

Bullying... that brings up so many things, from the stereo typical jocks giving the school nerd a 'swirly' in the bathroom.  to someone being taunted for not being 'perfect' but also other forms, such as physically harming someone else.  so, to make my response as thorough as possible, i will have to break down the various forms of bullying.  Now i understand there are way to many to be listed, so i am going to use groups.  Verbal, Physical, and finally discriminatory.  I feel that all the various forms fall into one of those three. 

 

First is Verbal.  in my opinion, that is one form of bullying that not only is useful, but in many ways good.  please allow me to explain before you crucify me.  lol.  as we all know, the world is a tough place.  the Adult world is not prone to making it so that 'everyone is a winner', or that you can get something for nothing.  that is not how life works.  so why are we trying to force our kids to learn something that is so vastly different from reality that it makes them woefully unprepared to become an adult?  a certain amount of name calling, and harassment helps to make it so those kids can survive in the real world.

 

Now yes, it is not nice, and it is hurtful, but guess what.  so is life.  lets allow the kids to learn how to deal with it while they still have parents and other adults to fall back on, to prop them up, and to teach them how to grow?  In life you have to fight for what you want, fight for what is right, and fight to survive, whether we like it or not, that is the cold hard truth.  so instead of trying to protect our kids from seeing it, until it is too late, we need to teach them how to deal with it.  how to survive it, but most importantly, we need to teach them how to thrive in adversity.  And here is where i will get into the most trouble. 

 

Yes Verbal bullying can lead to suicide.  in my opinion that is NOT the fault of the bullies, but the fault of the adults around the child who never taught the child how to deal with the situation.  how to turn it around, and how to survive.  is that insensitive?  Yes it is, but then again, so is the real world.  I was one of the bullied, fat, geeky, and gay.  lol.. I got it all.  BUT... my father taught me how to handle it.  he taught me that the shit that happens in school is short term, and frankly, who cares what the idiots out there think, because i knew i had a family that loved me.  they didn't just say it, they showed it.  THAT is what adults need to do.  show the children that they are loved, and all the shit that happens form the bullies will be just that... shit.

 

 

 

Now, i have already stirred up the hornets nest, and kicked it a few times for good measure, lets keep this going.  Physical Bullying.  again, it is needed to make sure someone can survive the real world, but it also has to be limited and blunted by the adults.  simply put, children to not yet know how far is too far.  with hormones flying around like Juan with a machinegun, it is easy for things to get out of control.  but, we have to allow the children to learn what it means to fight.  not just physically, but also mentally.  how they handle when something does not go the way they want, and frankly, how to not back down when confronted with something that they think might hurt them.  fighting in school is not so much about the fact that kids may get hurt, that has to be watched for, but allowed to happen.  No, fighting is needed to help the child learn and grow. 

 

 

 

finally, Discriminatory.  That one is hard, because it should not happen.  everyone should be equal right?  WRONG!  not everyone is equal.  humans, by their very nature, are afraid of what they do not understand.  in my opinion that is a very shortsighted frame of mind, but just like with everything else in life, just because i think people who not fear what they do not understand, does not mean that, just because i wish it to be, it will be.  instead of trying to stop something that will NEVER be stopped, why not teach people how to survive it.  how to grow through it, and again, to thrive.  instead of preaching that discrimination is wrong, PROVE IT.  actions speak louder then words, and frankly, anyone out that has a child will agree.  you tell them NOT to do something, and that just about guarantees that they WILL do it.  if someone hates you for who you are, then guess what?  GET OVER IT.  It's their problem not yours.  Show them they are wrong, but don't try and force them to believe as you do, because frankly, all that will do is make them hate you more. 

 

If someone hates you because you are gay, or black, or Hispanic, or fat, or whatever else.  so fucking what!  MY question to someone who complains about someone hating them because of that, is simply this.  why do you care what they think?  To bring this back home to this board.  Many people out there think that we need to force people to accept gays for who we are.  I disagree.  us trying to force someone to accept our way of thinking is no better then them trying to force us to accept their way of thinking.  plain and simple.  The gay Right movement trying to force the religious to accept us, is not different then the religious right trying to force their beliefs on us.  unless you feel that you need them to validate your right to be who you are, then what does it matter?  and if you do have that need, then frankly, i have more pity for you, than i do for the simple, closed minded person.  Love yourself, find validation in yourself, because no one else can do that for you. 

 

 

 

Now, i know i hot on a lot of things, and probably pressed a WHOLE lot of buttons, but than again, that's what this is all about right?

[Zach Caldwell]

Bullying is something that has been around, probably, since the time of the cave men. I am not sure that it is something that can ever be stopped or wiped out.

 

Bullying by little boys and girls is in part the result of not knowing better and being taught what is and is not acceptable by their parents and other adults in their lives.

 

By the time those same boys and girls are into middle school and especially high school and college, should know better and not engage in it at all.

 

Something I have heard from a lot of individuals who are verbally bullied should just suck it up, man up, toughen up etc etc. There is a certain element of truth to this. However, I find and feel that at times it is take too far and as a result the bullied individual feels unable to cope, and this is compounded by a sense that the parent who said it is not taking their pain and confusion seriously thus deepening the self loathing, despair and depression.

 

Verbal bullying can be dealt with and overcome it, if he or she, has a strong support network. (Family and friends). In that case, the individual has someone they can talk to, who is actually listening and taking his or her feelings seriously and thus get advise and guidance in how to cope with and or lessen the impact of hurtful words. Sadly, not everyone has such a strong and stable support group around them. Thus some effort in schools has to be taken to try and mitigate any potential harm to an individual. Ultimately it should be the parents who teach their kids that they should not bully anyone for anyone reason. Again, sadly, not all parents are as involved in their kids lives as they should be.

 

Physical and abusive bullying has to be stopped on the spot for obvious reasons. Physical harm to an individual is never acceptable and everyone should take a stand on this point and everyone has a responsibility to shine a light on it when they see it happening.

 

Verbal and Physical bullying are things that everyone should be alert to and stop when they see it. Everyone is different in how they can deal with and handle life and the curve balls that are thrown at us. Generally speaking most people come out okay after being verbally and sometimes physically bullied. There are those who have mental health issues either prior to the bullying or a result of it. Those are the most vulnerable. Thus it is important that we try and limit both verbal and physical bullying as best as we can.

 

With all of that said. I do not much believe in zero tolerance. There are always various circumstances that can lead to situation and each has to be judged on its own merits. Physical bullying, should be dealt with harshly and swiftly. The problem with Zero Tolerance, is that the person who happens to defend his self from the bully, under zero tolerance, would be punished as well as the one who started the fight in the first place. That is just plain wrong and unacceptable. That is like saying you have the right to defend yourself but when you do, you are going to be punished for doing so. Really? Stupid.

 

Ultimately, we have got to find ways to get parents more involved in the lives of their kids. But to do that, means to address much broader issues, such as increase in minimum wages, flexible work hours, finding and keeping a job, creating jobs and pay so that one does not have to work more than one job just to make ends meet.

[Zach Caldwell]

Many people out there think that we need to force people to accept gays for who we are.  I disagree.  us trying to force someone to accept our way of thinking is no better then them trying to force us to accept their way of thinking.  plain and simple.  The gay Right movement trying to force the religious to accept us, is not different then the religious right trying to force their beliefs on us.

There may be some who are "forcing" people to accept gay people. Just as there are some people who are trying to force their religious views on to others. This is simply wrong. However, what I see more often is people taking a stand and fighting back when people, pastors and or politicians, cross the line from words and into actions that would deny us the same civil rights as is enjoyed by everyone else. Think what you will and say what you wish and believe what you wish. But when your actions begins to impede the lives and rights of others, then by god we all better be standing up and yelling hell no, real fast. To deny the rights of one is to deny the rights of all.

[ken barber]

Let me share a little story.

Ken, 17 years old. captain of his High school baseball team. Insecure in himself so to deflect any scrutiny he tends to ridicule and point out "flaws" in others. He pushes younger weaker kids around. One day after baseball practice he is walking towards the parking lot where his older brother is suppose to pick him up, him and his friends pass another student, Kevin. Kevin was a slightly effeminate dorky kid and was always staying after to school to work on one nerdy projector another. As Ken passed him he shouted "Fagot" at Kevin and knocked his large stack of books out of his hands and then pushed him to the ground and started to walk away. Ken heard a car door slam and someone yell  "Hey". He turned and looked and saw the one person in the world he did not want to see at that moment. His grandfather, the one person Ken looked up to. His hero. His grandfather stormed over and right in front of all of Ken's friends forced ken to apologize and help Kevin pick up all his books and papers when that was done. Ken's grandfather snatched his equipment bag off his shoulder and dumped it on the ground and pushed Ken down and turned and walked away. Ken had never been so humiliated in his life but more importantly he had lost the respect of his Grandfather. His Grandfather wouldn't speak to him for 2 months. During that time Ken thought a lot and finally ended up seeking Kevin out and talking to him. Kevin and Ken became friends and began to hang out. Ken slowly became the anti bully at his school and eventually came out to Kevin who expressed his feelings for Ken. Kevin turned out to be the most amazing thing that happened to my young life.Unfortunately I joined the army and he went away to school and we slowly drifted apart but to this day there is still a special place in my heart for my first love Kevin

 

Morale of the story (which is very true) bullying can be stopped and prevented if we as adults teach the hard lessons. Bullying is not a right of passage it doesn't teach those bullied to overcome its a tyrannical form oppression plan and simple.

[Emperor Roland]

There may be some who are "forcing" people to accept gay people. Just as there are some people who are trying to force their religious views on to others. This is simply wrong. However, what I see more often is people taking a stand and fighting back when people, pastors and or politicians, cross the line from words and into actions that would deny us the same civil rights as is enjoyed by everyone else. Think what you will and say what you wish and believe what you wish. But when your actions begins to impede the lives and rights of others, then by god we all better be standing up and yelling hell no, real fast. To deny the rights of one is to deny the rights of all.

 

 

I could not agree more.  I will never say to not stand and fight when your right are being trampled.  however, when one person says something bad about another group of people, that, in my opinion, is NOT trampling someone's right.

[Emperor Roland]

Ken, i understand what you are saying, but it is because of those moments in our lives that prepare us for the world at large.  it's the times where we have to get back up after being knocked down, that allow us to do it again when we are older.  all i am trying to say is that this day and age, the prevailing thought is that we must protect the children and shield them from any type of harm.  the problem with that is it does not prepare the child for being an adult.  not everyone is a winner, not everyone is just as good as everyone else.  that is just not the way life works, no matter what people may try and say. 

 

you learned a lot form what your grandfather taught you that day.  that is something that needs to be taught to many many more people, but frankly, wrapping kids in a silk cocoon so that they never have to get hurt is the worst thing we can do. 

[Anjobranco]

Yes my Lord Roland, and rest assure i already have 3 more topic brewing on my mind.

 

On the topic, "What do not kills us, makes as stronger" it as some true on it.

 

We have tow big problems brewing on or society now day, one the hover protectionist of some parents, the other is the is the discarding of the parent obligation from some parents.

 

The first one i can give my example, my brother when he was a child had some problem, he was running an errand for my mother and some other boy call him some names, he chase him and try to punch him, but the other boy run to a building and slam a glass door in front of my brother he end punching the glass and got some nasty cut on his arm, and a scar on his arm for the rest of his live, because of that my mother becomes hover protective of us.

When i was a child it was very difficult to persuade my mother to let me play on the street, and she always expected us to come strait home after classes, that prevents us from having some social interactions, and that to my understanding, made me have lack of social skills, i was and still are very introverted, shy, i have problems in expressing my self, and stress my ideas, here it is easier, because i have time to think and plan my thoughts, in a social setting it is harder.

 

So hover protection it is bad, it prevents children from developing social skills that will be need lather on in live.

 

 

The second, parents discarding obligations regarding there children, i think it is a result of the current state of society. Boot parent work, they came home late and tired, they do not want to be bothered whit there children just want to go to bed and sleep.

Those children do not have boundaries or limitations, they are not taught the difference from right or wrong.

 

I believe that all the people children included need some healthy competition to bring what is good him then, and they need to learned that not everything in live are roses, and heaven roses have thorns.

 

Here in Portugal we have an huge problem, parents are discarding the responsibility on educating there children, and trying to passe that responsibility to teachers in school, but on the same time teachers are loosing power in schools, children do not respect teachers and in some cases physical assault them, and are empowered by there parents that do the same.

 

We do not need bullying in schools, we need rivalry and competition, because bullying is when you cross the line and what you are doing stop being a way to prepare yourself to the harshness of the adult life, and starts to be a crush on your personality.

 

How many times can a children be told that they are no good, garbage or other thinks like that, before they start to belief in it?

 

And physical bullying? Never, if they want to learned how to fight, they are proper places to do that, for boot of them, the aggressor and the assaulted. School it is not the place for it.

 

[ken barber]

Roland,

I understand what your saying. Children do need to be taught if your knocked down get back up. However "sanctioning" bullying is not the way to go. When you teach a child to ride a bike and they fall off you put them right back  on. Sports, theater, games those things teach children not everyone is winner. When I was a Kid the worse I did was push someone down knock their books out of their hands. Today these kids are being hurt or humiliated so badly they are committing suicide. At some point we as a society have to say enough and reign in the bullies. Crack down on them. You will never eradicate bullying, its part of our nature. But adults can control the harm it does they can reduce the impact by making sure the kids know its not ok its not right. Kids will always disagree and fight and tease each other but it gone too far in way to many cases.

[Anjobranco]

Yes children need to be challenged to better them self’s. But we also need to impose a line where the bullying (and a really do not like that word), stops being something that push them to improve them self’s and starts to be something that drags them down.

 

Another thing that nobody talk here yet, it is the bullies them self. Some of them are being bullied also, by there parents, by there friends, by society. Those ones need help as much as the ones they bully. The outer ones, those that bully for self gratification and the need to make them self’s more important because they are bigger and stronger than the others, those need to be bring down, and hard, because if not the only thing they are going to learn is that they cam bully there way in live and get away whit it, those are the one that are mostly become the hard core criminals of the future.