D'Artagnon Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 This is likely to piss people off, but I offer it as a method of stimulating conversation. I will start off saying that I do have animosity for this individual, so I'm taking that card out of play. I will also say that this, while somewhat politically motivated, I feel is born out in facts. This is a historical comparison between Mr. Trump (Currently Republican candidate for US President) and former Nazi Party leader and Chancelor of Germany Adolph Hitler. It is scary that I actually have material to make this comparison. Please read and think about it before initiating any angry retorts. If you are a supporter of Mr. Trump, I hope you will look at this objectively. Having said that, I now notice some striking similarities in their messages. Hitler vilified the Jewish people (racial) despite being genetically linked to people of Hebrew descent himself. He demanded that they be sent out of Germany, that the people rise up and either cast them out physically, or bully them into leaving on their own. They were called such things as dirty, seditious, criminal, thieving and usurpers. He blamed the Jews for appeasing the allies in the first world war. Eventually, history tells us that Hitler had the Jews in his territory rounded up, placed in camps, stole their property, used them as slave labor and eventually tried to exterminate them as a race. These are facts. In his speeches, Hitler claimed that if he could get rid of the Jews, could rebuild the military, instituted massive building operations and ignored the treaties and diplomacy of the past, he could "make the fatherland great again." He claimed that he could economically stimulate the country back to glory through his own plan, that he did not give details of. And he claimed that he could do things better, faster and more efficiently if he wasn't constrained by certain government agencies and laws. In his opening speech declaring his candidacy, Mr. Trump called illegal immigrants, who now number a significant part of the population of this country, dirty, murderers, rapists, and thieves. He claims further that the Mexican government is responsible for the illegals in this country. Mr. Trump has claimed he has a plan for dealing with terrorism from extreme radical Muslim organizations. He claims he will build, or finish rather, the wall between the USA and Mexico, and make the Mexican government pay for it. He claims that he can make the country great again, and will accomplish this with expedited action at the government level, without oversight. When you base your platform on racism, exploitation, aggressive foreign policy based on the end of a gun instead of a handshake and exchange of words, when you tell everyone you can do what all the other elected officials combined could not do simply because you'll step around how they do things, you are stepping into the same path Hitler took. Tyrants aren't made, or born. They're allowed. The German people heard what they wanted to hear from Hitler. They heard his message and ignored the bad parts. I know we're all looking for hope, but I can't help but wonder, listening to a man who inherited much of his wealthy, who has to constantly remind us how smart he is and how dumb everyone else is (by his own standards) try to tell the people what he has researched what they want to hear and pass it off as his own policy and dream... I watch all politics and politicians like a hawk. The ones I like often let me down. The ones I disagree with occasionally shine, occasionally falter. They are all human. But we need to keep an eye on them. I'm not saying that Trump is Hitler, please don't take that message away from this. But he is following a similar path, and a lot of people are listening to him. Comments? Dissension? Insights? I'd really like to know what we feel about all this, because something else Hitler did was to murder thousands of homosexuals, including a branch of his own private army. And no one saw that one coming either. Clear heads, clear minds. Robby Steve T. and Mark C. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeikor Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 As one of the few Republican leaning members here I can say unequivocally that Donald Trump is NOT what this country needs. It is good that he is exciting Republicans to get out but I hope they take a good hard look at all the candidates ans see which ones would be better for our country. On the other hand I don't think the current poll leader for the Democrats is what we need either. I understand your concerns, D'Artagnon. We don't need to go to extremes in either direction. As for illegal immigrants some have shown themselves to be hard criminals but many are only trying to improve their families lives. Unfortunately sanctuary cities that flaunt the law are enabling the criminals it seems more than those wanting better lives. Here's to finding someone who actually puts country first. Not holding my breath though. D'Artagnon and Mark C. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilbur Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Frankly, the comparison between Trump and Hitler is rather scary... if only because you draw some really good parallels. Frankly, I don't like most of the current crop of presidential candidates. The idea of Hillary Clinton in the White House is only slightly less scary than Trump, and I have a sinking feeling she's going to win the democratic nomination. About the only one I halfway care for is Rand Paul. (Much to my shock, given his republican leanings) D'Artagnon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeikor Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Rilbur, that is shocking. Rand Paul is about too far to the right for my comfort!!! He is very intelligent though and well-spoken. D'Artagnon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken barber Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Scare tactics and propaganda have always been a formidable political tool. The Republican candidates on the list of hopefuls, and its a ridiculously long list are getting really good at this tactic, Chief among them Donald Trump, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. Trump's particular brand of campaigning is terrifyingly similar to Hitler and even the rantings of Stalin. His "Honesty" is nothing more than playing with the worst case scenarios and shouting them out. Rallying the "crowd" into a mob mentality. This is exactly as Hitler did it. Rand Paul is no better in his rantings and tries to use the same tactics except his voice is smaller so it gets drowned out by men Like Donald Trump. I can only hope the educated citizens of this country vote this year. If not We will be pushed back 100's of years in social progress if any one the republican list actually get elected. D'Artagnon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilbur Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Rilbur, that is shocking. Rand Paul is about too far to the right for my comfort!!! He is very intelligent though and well-spoken. He's the best option of a bad lot. He's more libertarian than republican, he actually has a clue about how dangerous the rampant overreach of the intelligence agencies is, and he's actually comfortable with the concept that there are some problems the federal government shouldn't solve -- that it isn't meant to solve. And lets be honest: at the end of the day, the reason I appear more left-leaning is because I can't stand the religious zealots who have a headlock on the republican party. Remove those idiots from the equation, and I'd probably jump ship in a heartbeat. Of course, I'd prefer for the libertarian party to actually be a real political power, but realism trumps idealism. D'Artagnon and Jeikor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 D'Artagnon, I like what you said about tyrants are allowed, not born. Unfortunately, it is so true. The majority of people throughout time, just want to live, and go about their business. So when a tyrant arises, people do not want their world shaken or to suffer any inconvenience, etc. And the result is history. What I do not like about politics now is, everyone has become too polarized. Both main parties have become so dug in and hidebound and the result is chaos and gridlock. I admit to voting Democratic all my life but even the Democrats left wing faction is guilty, as well as the Republican right, even worse. This country was established by compromise (the creation of the Senate championed by less populous states and the House championed by the more populous states, the Bill of Rights, etc..) and most progress has been as a result of compromise. When neither major party gets all what it wants, it seems the country moves one step further. I have always been a 'centrist' however and prefer the middle to either extreme. If a Repulican centrist ran against a extreme left wing Democrat, I would most likely vote for the Republican, ignoring the gasps from my parent's graves. So many of the Republican candidates this year are polarizing, in my opinion or represent hard lines politics with no chance of compromising. This country is too diverse for such non-compromising, 'it's my way or no deal' attitudes. And I only see it getting worse and not better, sigh.... Thanks, D'Artagnon, for a thoughtful post. D'Artagnon and Jeikor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilbur Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 The fact that both parties are polarizing to such a degree, entrenching in such deep divides that no compromise is seen as acceptable, is the biggest reason I think a civil war is more or less inevitable. Someone pointed out that the US military forces just won't cooperate with that scenario, and they may have a point, but... Mark C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeikor Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 . . . . . but (to finish Rilbur's but my way) there are way too many idiots with guns who might start one anyway. L have nothing against gun ownership but there are too many who haven't been taught the proper place and use for them. Mark C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T. Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I can see the parallels, D'Artagnon. Hitler was a much better orator than Trump, but they seem to be able to fire up a crowd in the same manner. I still can't understand how Trump hasn't dropped in the polls yet. On Monday, he made about six tweets trying to provoke a fight with Megan Kelly on her return from vacation. In one he called her "the bimbo." On Tuesday, he had a Latino reporter from Univision thrown out of a press conference because he was trying to ask a question about Trump's statements about immigrants. Or maybe it's because he was from Univision who dropped Trump's Miss Universe pageants. Who knows how he thinks? My point is: does any of this seem "presidential" to these people? Can they imagine any other president acting like this? Mark C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Norris Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I could go on about the "Trump" phenomenon, but a short article in Ammoland explains it very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeikor Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 About the reporter from Univision, I watched that today. The problem with the reporter is that he would not wait his turn. He was interrupting another reporter who was trying to ask a question.Later, Trump had him brought back to press conference.But I still don't think Trump is what we need for president-just to make that clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T. Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) About the reporter from Univision, I watched that today. The problem with the reporter is that he would not wait his turn. He was interrupting another reporter who was trying to ask a question.Later, Trump had him brought back to press conference.But I still don't think Trump is what we need for president-just to make that clear.You're right, Jeikor. I saw that earlier this morning. But, I don't think Trump ever intended to call on the guy. History has shown us that Trump is petty and vindictive. The only way that guy was going to get to ask a question is the way he did it, I think.On a slightly different note, I also read an article that, I think, perfectly sums up the mentality of the Trump supporter. It was about a focus group done by a Republican strategist, Frank Luntz. One of the participants said, "We know that Trump is going to make the country great again. It's on his hat."That scares the bejeesus out of me that some folks are so easily swayed by a crappy logo and empty, jingoistic speeches. Edited August 26, 2015 by Steve T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeikor Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Steve,You may well be right that Trump would never call on him but it appeared as though that was the beginning. If so he didn't even wait to see if he would be called on. If that were the only way for him to ask I think he should have waited until the end.The mentality of Trump supporters is extremely scary I agree. Hopefully enough Republicans come to their senses enough to not make Trump the nominee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkin Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) This is likely to piss people off, but I offer it as a method of stimulating conversation. I will start off saying that I do have animosity for this individual, so I'm taking that card out of play. I will also say that this, while somewhat politically motivated, I feel is born out in facts.This is a historical comparison between Mr. Trump (Currently Republican candidate for US President) and former Nazi Party leader and Chancelor of Germany Adolph Hitler.It is scary that I actually have material to make this comparison. Please read and think about it before initiating any angry retorts. If you are a supporter of Mr. Trump, I hope you will look at this objectively.Clear heads, clear minds. RobbyI agree with D'Artagnon. Whether republican or democrat, there is reason to worry.What we are witnessing is a circus. At best, you could call it performance art. Trump is just a trial to assess just what and how much we will tolerate. Trump is not a statesman, he is an actor. I think that he is preparing the field for somebody else, perhaps, Jeb Bush, who would surely be worse.These people didn't come up through popular movements, they have been presented to us and we are suppose to choose. Like Plato's Cave, it is an illusion. The truth is that it no longer matters who you vote for because the agenda is already in place. The new President, whether it be Hilary, or Trump or Cruz is nothing more than vice president in charge of public relation. This is what Barack Obama has taught me. I voted for him and I was excited when he won. I think that he is basically a good man, a highly intelligent man and a constitutional scholar but he has been a weak president. The policies advanced are not his. Barack Obama is following orders laid out by forces unseen. They are the same forces that will meet the next president when he or she arrives in office.I will not be voting again...Have you noticed that all of these candidates are pro-war except perhaps Bernie? Most of the time they talk about superficial things like nuance of personality, individual demeanor or scandal. On the rare times that they talk about issues they quibble and lay blame and many issues raised are not in the realm of government. D'Artagnon is right, This is exactly how Hitler came to power. He exploited prejudice, he used emotion and he worked with industry that wanted war for profit.The thing I fear most is the charismatic. A leader who comes out of nowhere to save us..."Beware!"But for us, we have already been disenfranchised. It no longer matters who you vote for. Republican or Democrat are essentially the same because they are both corporate and it is the corporations who are running the world.To quote Chris Hedges, "The only thing we have left is the street..." Edited December 6, 2015 by larkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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