Kandric world discussion

[Kyle Aarons]

charts didn't come over quite right, but you can see that experience it takes to gain echelons and steps is different by race.

this chart also has the difference for Sands of Time Era and Kandric Era.

in simple terms it takes more experience to advance for the higher races and less for the lower races. Magic Defiance is also different. So while the attack and counter are the same for a secondary Echelon step one Human and a Secondary step one Alphar, the Alphar will have more force to cast with and a higher magic defiance. It also takes him a lot more XP to get to that point.

 

Edited January 29, 2016 by Kyle Aarons

[Zergrinch]

This post is going to come with a couple of caveats.

• First, by my guess Kyle Aarons would be knee-deep into the next Kandric chapter (yes, please!), so I'm not expecting any immediate reply. Please, take your time.
• Second, I'm not making any accusations here. Just an observation. So, here goes.

While thinking about the characters in the Kandric Saga, it occurs to me that I cannot name many females, other than the gods (Vindayin, Syria), demons (Frexla), and Gambra, who are very high echelon. After scrounging through the wiki, I came up with the following (of which only two would actually qualify - if "high level" is defined as "master" and above:

1. Gambra (legendary echelon mage <-- main antagonist) 
2. Sagell (expert echelon druid)
3. Gomriss (teaching echelon swordsman)
4. Klorna (teaching echelon swordsman)
5. Sasrala (teaching echelon swordsman)
6. Kaylaria (secondary echelon sorcerer)
7. Sharris (primary echelon mage) 

Granted, I may be missing out on some very powerful individuals whose echelons are undoubtedly high but are unrevealed, such as Queen Jostalis and Gebetthia. Still, this pales in comparison to the number of high-level males I can easily name, even if they're not main characters (namely: Bandurlok, Falk, Glaster, Lannet, Millen, Monarch). Adding the main characters would undoubtedly increase the number (namely: Kandric and his siblings, Gardagem, and very possibly King Wyrhem)

So my question is this: we already know the Kandric world is kind of a crapsack world with fantastic levels of elitism regarding social ranks. Does this extend to gender as well? That is to say, is the seeming dearth of high level women an indication that women have less potential, or are they not nurtured because of societal attitudes?

[Jeikor]

Zergrinch, I do not know Kyle's reasons but I can put forth a theory of my own.

Perhaps the reason is that since this site, its readers and writers are predominately gay and bi men that he uses predominately male characters. Quite a few of those mentioned especially Kandric and his brothers are gay and bi themselves.

I know that is true of my own writing. I tend to use mostly male characters because that is what I am most comfortable with.

Jeikor

[Ricky]

I thought it was because dudes rule and girls drool.

[Skylar]

Actually I have been kinda puzzled over the echelons vs dragon gifting. Does advancing through the echelons by dragon gifting make one more powerful than another who advanced "naturally" when both are rated the same in terms of echelons? Its strange that Glaster seems to suggest that Kandric is higher in status simply by killing 2 greats even though Glaster is rated extremely high in echelon. In terms of the Gods/spirits/demons/great dragons, are their ability measured in echelons or on some other basis? 

Considering that Rovnar is elevated to Godhood simply by killing dragons, why is Kandric "only" a Master after outperforming Rovnar?

[Zergrinch]

Experience is experience. If you kill a dragon, you get a shitload of experience compared to practice. It just happens that dragons transfer quite a bit of knowledge to their killers. For example, Kandric and his knights can all speak draconic now, and I'm sure there is a ton of Mystic knowledge Lorthorn is hiding right now.

Glaster was looking more into the Premier title than the dragon kills when he determines status. I would say Premier might be on the same rank as a king, if not greater.

I can't say if Kandric is now has a higher echelon than Glaster. As of Chapter 30, he is Master Step 5 while Glaster is at least Legendary Step 1. He knows a ton more spells than his master, but Glaster can cast more powerful spells. As of Chapter 31, he's added quite a bit of experience. Is it enough to push him into Legendary? Only Kyle knows right now.

Also, godhood depends on worshippers. As of now, Kandric has no worshippers sending him that nice sweet spritual power.

There are two echelons that were revealed after legendary: High Council and Demigod. Pretty sure only deities can dream of reaching the last echelon.

Caveat: I have no special knowledge. I just like to read and infer a lot.

[Skylar]

Ah right cos there wasn't a reference point for the status of spirits/gods/premier. Somehow I think Kandric is legendary echelon too by now. Its an interesting way to think that gods power depend on worshipers but how do the Gods get their spirit servants or power to heal? How about demons who seem to be able to regenerate insofar they can return to the spirit realms?

To me high council seems more like a post than a true echelon rank, considering that only 1 person can fill it as the acting Supreme leader of the specific field? I am just inferring here from the fact that Falk was approached since the current person wanted to retire. 

[Zergrinch]

Your question about demon regeneration reminds me of what I might consider as a minor plot hole.

It looks like the ice demon Kandric killed, which was the catalyst for him to level up to Teaching Echelon, was a very powerful minion of Inaxia, who is even feared by Alphar, Garm, and Hawklings.As such, it should have given Kandric a bigger boost than High Secondary to Teaching.

In comparison, slaying Gebbethia propelled Kandric from Teaching to Expert, and then Blathamort boosted him from Expert to Master. And, the dragon kills were spread many ways, with Kandric and his siblings, as well as his knights. In comparison, there didn't seem to be any disturbance felt by anyone when the ice demon died.

Considering that the experience necessary to level up increases exponentially, it is strange that two royal dragons provide way more experience than a supposedly dreaded demon...

[Kyle Aarons]

OK, just so you understand the way it works in the Kandric universe, you can never go up 2 echelons, the body simply cannot handle it. Kandric went from Secondary to the very top of Teaching after the Demon kill. It is the most he could progress without his body overloading and killing him. Hope that clarifies things. some.

[Kyle Aarons]

As for female characters, while there are some hard hitting females, the Kandric world is dominated by males, at least in combat. That does not mean characters like Klorna, Sagell, Kaylaria, Jostallis, and others are not key to the story or can't fight. While it is easier to write a male character for me, I do have several females in Defenders, O'Connell, and Brile.

[Zergrinch]

1 hour ago, Kyle Aarons said:

OK, just so you understand the way it works in the Kandric universe, you can never go up 2 echelons, the body simply cannot handle it. Kandric went from Secondary to the very top of Teaching after the Demon kill. It is the most he could progress without his body overloading and killing him. Hope that clarifies things. some.

Ah. So, on paper, a (very lucky) primary step mortal who kills a god can only go up to high secondary, no matter how much experience points is gained. That's an additional tidbit of information we didn't have before. Shame about that overflow though!

Is that why the force from the kill was not shared with Kandric and his siblings, as well as Conth who was in the immediate environment? Or is experience-sharing unique to killing dragons? Or maybe the demon was not quite as narcissistic as dragons and chose to not give any death gifts?

Upon rereading the latest chapter, I think it is pretty evident Kandric is now Legendary echelon. That means he can potentially go toe-to-toe with Glaster, and even win! Not that it will even happen in a million years.

 

1 hour ago, Kyle Aarons said:

As for female characters, while there are some hard hitting females, the Kandric world is dominated by males, at least in combat. That does not mean characters like Klorna, Sagell, Kaylaria, Jostallis, and others are not key to the story or can't fight. While it is easier to write a male character for me, I do have several females in Defenders, O'Connell, and Brile.

Gotcha. The female sex can be hard to understand sometimes, much less, be written about

[Kyle Aarons]

Is that why the force from the kill was not shared with Kandric and his siblings, as well as Conth who was in the immediate environment? Or is experience-sharing unique to killing dragons? Or maybe the demon was not quite as narcissistic as dragons and chose to not give any death gifts?

The demon was utterly destroyed, a Dragon has an afterlife somewhere. Therefore, there was nothing put out to share, just the raw power of the kill. Now it did put Kandric 1 exp from Expert, but he was still only teaching afterwards due to the limitations on the body to accept such magical advancement

 

[Zergrinch]

Ooh 1 XP from Expert. Does that mean you stop gaining any experience whatsoever from scrub kills once you are at, say, High Secondary/Teaching level? That's another interesting fact in the leveling system, because in between the time he slayed the demon and killed Gebetthia, thus leveling up to Expert, Kandric defeated quite a lot of beings and didn't gain a single exp:

1. The mean cloud spirit in the spirit realm
2. The gnoll caravan raiders, with Sy
3. The cloud demonette, with his mother
4. Half-orc protectors in the gnoll camp, with Vondum
5. All the students in Saslara's school, together with Rylop and two other guards
6. Monarch's officer (Expert Echelon swordsman) in single combat
7. The lower-ranked soldiers in Blathamort's forward base, with his students
8. All of Gebetthia's protectors, with his knights 

[Kyle Aarons]

the way I work EXP in the kandric world is you have to defeat in some way shape or form someone/something of Equal echelon to get one exp. Now if you are fight lower Echelon things, you have to defeat your echelon squared in a single altercation to get one, so.......... at teaching echelon you have to defeat 9 echelons worth of lower beings (9 primary, 2 secondary and 1 Primary, ext...) therefore at Expert you would have to defeat 16 echelons worth, 25 at Master 36 at Legendary... this means many times you fight and get a big zilch.. too bad, so sad

so there you have it. Not nearly as easy to go up once you get to badass echelons... also more exp needed to advance so it just keeps getting harder unless you decide to pick on things way higher than you... oh, like a major demon, a great dragon, a lich... you know, the things that are the real monsters under the bed or in the sewers under the house (also still technically under the bed  )

[Zergrinch]

Awww, but I do so love picking on kobolds and goblins in my RPG to reap those delicious, delicious experience points

Poor poor General Dylar. I guess Expert echelon swordsmen are not even worth 1 experience point for teaching echelon shamen 

[Skylar]

Wasn't Kandric a teaching when he defeated Monarch's officer who was Expert Echelon swordsman i.e one echelon higher than Kandric?

[Zergrinch]

Yes, but Dylar probably sucked at being a swordsman. Maybe he just bought his title?  

[Skylar]

On 3/8/2017 at 5:44 PM, Zergrinch said:

Yes, but Dylar probably sucked at being a swordsman. Maybe he just bought his title?  

Lol if that's the case then the guilds will be rubbish. Based on the story line it seems that if there is one thing the guilds cannot allow is fake ranking. Remember in chapter 2 it was stated that if the guilds found out anyone claiming to be an echelon higher than they truly are the guild will kill everyone who are involved. Besides I doubt that Monarch will allow fakers in his camp. 

 

I only brought this up cos since his demon kill will make him 1 exp away from Expert why didn't Kandric make Expert then but only after the Great dragon kill?

[Zergrinch]

Nah, pretty sure the guilds don't care about a nasty Illorc like Dylar. They probably sold him that fake ranking fully expecting him to be massacred by the other guilds. Don't forget the Swordsmen Guild in Slome was totally corrupt :'D

[Zergrinch]

On 1/29/2016 at 9:02 AM, Kyle Aarons said:

Racial Experience Charts

First number is Base Attack second number is Base Counter

Chart 1

 

Experience points needed (-1 FORCE per Echelon (minimum 1): -10 Magic Defiance (minimum 1))

Goblin, Gobling, Orc, Kobald

Above Skilled Echelon it gets increasingly harder to advance because the lack of racial magic

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Preparation	101/31	102/32	103/33	104/34	105/35	106/36	107/37	108/38	109/39	110/40
Experience	1	2	2	3	4	4	5	6	6	7
Training	115/45	116/46	117/47	118/48	119/49	121/51	122/52	123/53	124/54	125/55
Experience	8	10	11	13	14	16	17	19	20	22
Proficient	130/60	131/61	132/62	133/63	134/64	136/66	137/67	138/68	139/69	140/70
Experience	25	27	30	32	35	37	40	42	45	47
Skilled	145/75	146/76	147/77	148/78	149/79	151/81	152/82	153/83	154/84	155/85
Experience	60	64	68	72	76	80	84	88	92	96
Instruction	160/90	161/91	162/92	163/93	164/94	166/96	167/97	168/98	169/99	170/100
Experience	105	110	115	120	125	130	135	140	145	150
Accomplished	175/105	176/106	177/107	178/108	179/109	181/111	182/112	183/113	184/114	185/115
Experience	160	170	180	190	200	210	220	230	240	250
Renowned	190/120	191/121	192/122	193/123	194/124	196/126	197/127	198/128	199/129	200/130
Experince	265	280	295	310	325	340	355	370	385	400
Supreme	210/140	211/141	212/142	213/143	214/144	216/146	217/147	218/148	219/149	220/145
Experience	420	440	460	480	500	520	540	560	580	600

 

 

Chart 2

 

Experience points needed

Human, Halforc, Earthman, Harpy, Pantherling, Wolfling, Morg, Gnoll

This is Standard advancement with no bonuses or penalties

Chart 2

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Preparation	101/31	102/32	103/33	104/34	105/35	106/36	107/37	108/38	109/39	110/40
Experience	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Training	115/45	116/46	117/47	118/48	119/49	121/51	122/52	123/53	124/54	125/55
Experience	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	26	28	30
Proficient	130/60	131/61	132/62	133/63	134/64	136/66	137/67	138/68	139/69	140/70
Experience	33	36	39	42	45	48	51	54	57	60
Skilled	145/75	146/76	147/77	148/78	149/79	151/81	152/82	153/83	154/84	155/85
Experience	64	68	72	76	80	84	88	92	96	100
Instruction	160/90	161/91	162/92	163/93	164/94	166/96	167/97	168/98	169/99	170/100
Experience	105	110	115	120	125	130	135	140	145	150
Accomplished	175/105	176/106	177/107	178/108	179/109	181/111	182/112	183/113	184/114	185/115
Experience	156	162	168	174	180	186	192	198	204	210
Renowned	190/120	191/121	192/122	193/123	194/124	196/126	197/127	198/128	199/129	200/130
Experince	217	224	231	238	245	252	259	266	273	280
Supreme	210/140	211/141	212/142	213/143	214/144	216/146	217/147	218/148	219/149	220/145
Experience	288	296	304	312	320	328	336	344	352	360

 

 

Chart 3

 

Experience points needed (+1 FORCE per Echelon, +5 Magic Defiance Base + 1 per Echelon)

Highman, Plainsman, Stoutman, Warman, Halfelf, Halfdwarf, Mountain Dwarf, Hawkling, Dark Forest Elf, Forest Elf, High Elf, River Elf, Tunnel Gnome, Wilderness Gnome, Lizard Folk, Illorc

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Preparation	101/31	102/32	103/33	104/34	105/35	106/36	107/37	108/38	109/39	110/40
Experience	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Training	115/45	116/46	117/47	118/48	119/49	121/51	122/52	123/53	124/54	125/55
Experience	12	15	17	20	22	25	27	30	32	35
Proficient	130/60	131/61	132/62	133/63	134/64	136/66	137/67	138/68	139/69	140/70
Experience	38	41	45	48	52	55	58	61	65	68
Skilled	145/75	146/76	147/77	148/78	149/79	151/81	152/82	153/83	154/84	155/85
Experience	75	80	85	90	95	100	105	110	115	120
Instruction	160/90	161/91	162/92	163/93	164/94	166/96	167/97	168/98	169/99	170/100
Experience	126	132	138	144	150	156	162	168	174	180
Accomplished	175/105	176/106	177/107	178/108	179/109	181/111	182/112	183/113	184/114	185/115
Experience	187	194	201	208	215	222	229	236	243	250
Renowned	190/120	191/121	192/122	193/123	194/124	196/126	197/127	198/128	199/129	200/130
Experince	258	266	274	282	290	298	306	314	322	330
Supreme	210/140	211/141	212/142	213/143	214/144	216/146	217/147	218/148	219/149	220/145
Experience	339	348	357	366	375	384	393	402	411	420

 

 

Chart 4

 

Experience points needed (+2 FORCE per Echelon, +10 Magic Defiance Base + 2 per Echelon)

Dragonling, Garm, Drow, Alphar

 

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Preparation	101/31	102/32	103/33	104/34	105/35	106/36	107/37	108/38	109/39	110/40
Experience	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19
Training	115/45	116/46	117/47	118/48	119/49	121/51	122/52	123/53	124/54	125/55
Experience	22	24	27	29	31	34	36	39	41	44
Proficient	130/60	131/61	132/62	133/63	134/64	136/66	137/67	138/68	139/69	140/70
Experience	48	52	56	60	64	68	72	76	80	85
Skilled	145/75	146/76	147/77	148/78	149/79	151/81	152/82	153/83	154/84	155/85
Experience	95	100	105	110	115	120	125	130	135	140
Instruction	160/90	161/91	162/92	163/93	164/94	166/96	167/97	168/98	169/99	170/100
Experience	138	146	154	162	170	178	186	194	202	210
Accomplished	175/105	176/106	177/107	178/108	179/109	181/111	182/112	183/113	184/114	185/115
Experience	219	228	237	246	255	264	273	282	291	300
Renowned	190/120	191/121	192/122	193/123	194/124	196/126	197/127	198/128	199/129	200/130
Experince	310	320	330	340	350	360	370	380	390	400
Supreme	210/140	211/141	212/142	213/143	214/144	216/146	217/147	218/148	219/149	220/145
Experience	411	422	433	444	455	466	477	488	499	510

 

I've been playing around with the charts posted by Kyle a few years back, and I think I found a couple of inconsistencies.

Supreme, Base Counter: Does Base Counter regress from 149 to 145 upon reaching Step 10?

Chart 4 Experience: Experience needed to attain Skilled Step 10 is 140. But this is reduced to 138 for the next level, Instruction Step 1. I have reason to believe the intention for Skilled is 90 incrementing by 5 to 135 (instead of 95 incrementing to 140). Then, based on how previous experience was calculated, Instruction Step 1 should start at 140, and increments by 8 thereafter (148, 154, 162... the rest of the series is correct).

Oh, and here's a random chart. 

[Kyle Aarons]

Zergrinch, 

Send this to me in an email so I can look at it and make needed corrections

 

[Zergrinch]

I've been re-reading the Saga, and have some questions. If you think they border on spoilerish territory, I've no issue if you just say "no spoilers".

1. A paragraph in Chapter 23 has a "human dressed in a midnight blue robe with the constellations moving slowly" say this in a conference of the mythlets: "it is time to add at least one chair to this table and be prepared to help, not hinder, the others form the avatar powers they will certainly gain on their own." My question is, what are these avatar powers? 
2. In Chapter 31, the Wind Spirit has this to say to Kandric: "Word has come to us one of your brothers has made his mark in the realms of Kryplok and Brandall in a way not seen since the Mythling Wars, so your line is quite simply not one most outside the Mortal Realms want to trifle with. Those who have and will are by far the exceptions." Which brother was this? The ones who are doing any number of impressive things are Aster and Conner, and I can't really imagine how either of them made their mark in the realms of Kryplok (evil demon of Punishment) and Brandall (god of Death for good souls).
3. In Chapter 31, Mathard stated that he was "lucky that his wife gave him three children before becoming barren.". Earlier, the Alphar emissary Count Salostar asked Sagell, after she fantasized about bedding Quavis and mothering his child, whether she wants "to have what may be your only offspring with a Human child." Does this mean that many women can only have one child -- even for high-ranking Garm like the Duke, and well-connected people like Sagell who have the Watch looking after her? That actually explains quite a lot - why Kaylaria's ability to pop out babies very easily is highly prized, as well as the cost for Sagell to acquire knowledge about Animal Magic (produce an heir for an elf). However, it is also very curious, given that magic can regrow long-missing limbs in this world -- surely it can regrow wombs as well? And of course, it raises the issue with why the 'mothers' in the Swamp slums sell off their children so cavalierly -- when faced with the prospect that they aren't able to make any more.
4. Is there a hierarchy of healing? That is to say, can we safely say that the best Healthmen cannot heal as well as a Shaman, who then cannot hold a candle to the Channelers?
5. In Chapter 12, Vondum secretly cast a detect spell to check everyone's Echelon and step. Klorna was Teaching step 2, Gablon was Teaching step 5, and Vondum himself was Expert step 5, and Kandric was Teaching Step 3. This may need to be corrected for new information in Chapter 31, since Kandric is supposedly 1 XP below Expert after defeating Cyronia. Or perhaps, Vondum's spell was faulty?
6. In an earlier chapter, it is said that Rovnar has no mythling who is his direct opposite, and hence his attempts to sabotage Gambra's prospects. However, I looked through your list of gods in the Kandric Saga, and it looks like there is a philosophical opposite? Since Rovnar's domain is thievery, trickery, and freedom, Entropic who is dedicated to enslavement and power should oppose him, right? I tried to match the deities to their opposites and came up with this:

[Sir Kaius]

Is there a website for these charts and other info in the Kandric world?  I would love to get more information on this wonderful world and the characters. 

Kaius

[Zergrinch]

Not to my knowledge. The wiki has been made inaccessible to the reading public

[Wyatt]

On 9/29/2015 at 10:19 AM, Zergrinch said:

The impression I got is seniority goes like this:

1. Royalty
2. Trained Nobility
3. Untrained Nobility
4. Trained Commoner
5. Tradesmen
6. Untrained Commoner
7. Slaves

Orphans are described as a class lower than slaves. This I believe on the theory that slaves at least contribute labor, etc. to the owner, but orphans are considered to be doing nothing but using resources. Sands of Time may stress this in a more harsh way than The Kandric Saga, but in both stories, orphans are pretty much at the bottom of the heap. It would seem by this logic that prisoners and inmates should rate as low as orphans, but this does not seem to be the case.

Otherwise, I agree with Zergrinch's list.

(I had not completed thread when posting. I see now that Kyle had already explained orphans were at the bottom of the totem pole.)

Edited February 9, 2018 by Wyatt
related post