roger0002 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 My tirade, Part II I feel I do need to say this. Zergrinch is correct on several points; there is not enough of a personality displayed by several of the characters. As was pointed out in another of Kyle's topics, someone commented that he puts in a lot of unnecessary details in the stories that he writes. I disagree with this comment as the detail is necessary to immurse the reader into the story. While others may not feel the need for it, I think it makes the story better, as Zergrinch said. The detail about a character allows the reader to understand the individuality that a particular character has, and said character's mentality. Which would you prefer to read? A short paragraph describing the delusions suffered by a paranoidal sociopath or just a single sentence stating the character is nuts? Details are important if they add to the reader's enjoyment and understanding of the characters. On the other hand, details are burdensome if they become repetitive unless it is absolutely necessary to the story line. Another author that I like to read tends to get rather descriptive of the actions that take place in the privacy of the bedroom. Such details are fine, the first time as it is part of the emotional development of the relationship shared by the characters. But to have it happen again and again and again and again really tends to drag down the quality of the reading experience. It ceases to be necessary to the story, when a single line stating that the characters spent the night making love would serve the same purpose in half the bandwidth. I hope I said that right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 HEY! Some writers think bandwidth matters. And SOME writers learn that as they mature in this genre, the story can be better with less or implied sex. I'd hate to think you were saying something to compensate for having a sexual dial up. 0.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger0002 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I just don't feel that gratuitous hard core descriptions of sexual activity are really needed multiple times in a single chapter of a story that isn't about sex, that's all. If its needed for the story line, at least space it out some. In the 29 chapters of Kandric, there are, shall we say "details" that occur a total of maybe 3 or 4 times. They were mentioned to give the reader an idea of what the individuals had or were going through at the time. Any other incidences of a sexual nature were mentioned more in passing, leaving the details up to the imagination of the reader. The story I was referring to in my previous post had very descriptive encounters that were taking up large portions of chapters and actually had very little to do with the actual context of the story. There are other stories that have detailed sexual encounters in them, but they are only that detailed once, and when the situation occurs again, it is mentioned that it occurred but without the play by play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I just don't feel that gratuitous hard core descriptions of sexual activity are really needed multiple times in a single chapter of a story that isn't about sex, that's all. If its needed for the story line, at least space it out some. In the 29 chapters of Kandric, there are, shall we say "details" that occur a total of maybe 3 or 4 times. They were mentioned to give the reader an idea of what the individuals had or were going through at the time. Any other incidences of a sexual nature were mentioned more in passing, leaving the details up to the imagination of the reader. The story I was referring to in my previous post had very descriptive encounters that were taking up large portions of chapters and actually had very little to do with the actual context of the story. There are other stories that have detailed sexual encounters in them, but they are only that detailed once, and when the situation occurs again, it is mentioned that it occurred but without the play by play. Take mine for instance. I write to give our young brothers and sisters hope. I also write to help them burn off some of those pesky hormones. These that are posted here of mine are also my earlier works, I've toned it down a bit with each story as I mature in my writing. But there is still a need for real stories that are also descriptive. But as a mature reader, I also prefer more story and less sex. I guess it's all about the tageted readers. My stories are certainly more about love then sex. But they have a lot of sex. No doubt about that. My wife says I write better sex then her loveswept smut books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger0002 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Understandable that you write for your targeted readership. And in those instances, I just switch over to "skim" mode to get past it and back to heart of the story. I will have to take your wife's word for it as far as if you write better than the dime store "romance" novels. I don't read them, since they don't strike my fancy. :-) I suppose I should get back onto the topic at hand, though, so expect more as I think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Aarons Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Gambra, a villain??? really??? Roger, thank you for pointing out the hardships of mixing personal morals into a character who does not have the same belief system. I think that is key when Understanding Gablon. He buys slaves, Not a problem in his time and place. He sees a prostitute once in a while and is married, why does this make him hated by anyone? Health issues for him are something he can all but ignore. He is a shaman who has some spells to take care of things should he go to bed with the wrong woman, but he is pretty careful who he picks and keep in mid, his caravan is gone for many moons at a time before he makes a pass back home. While I have not gone into the deep detail on some of the characters I have mentioned, I feel I have given enough to at least get a feel for many. If not, let me know. The next chapter will be being worked on in less than a month... If there is someone you want to see more on or me to get deeper into, let me know. As far as the sex side, I started out heavier into the sex scenes to set the tone, but I am not a blow by blow person when it comes to sex in a major work like I am attempting with Kandric. I feel it needs to be there, and the undertone is still there, but this is not a sex story. It is a story with sexual elements. At least that is what I have wanted to show. Let me know how you all see the sexualized feel of the story and if you think it needs more or less. I would be very curious and there are no "right answers" just personal opinions and they are important to me. Now the real question, since I seem to see a great deal of interest in this subject of good and bad characters... Where would you rate any or all of the following? Vondum Glaster Monarch Lannet Bandurloc Klent Jory Sardan Sy Kaylaria Falk Pangam Anarton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger0002 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Okay, now its time to get back to the story. As my bio states, I'm a trucker and this evening I seem to have way too much free time while waiting for a reload sometime tomorrow. Wow, that's interesting information and tells me you've done an astounding lot of work on this! Happy to see Kandric's age ties up with what you wrote decades ago (Chapter 6: Darmoth is 33 years old; Chapter 1: Kandric is 16 years younger than Darmoth). Also, Aster's race is written Alphar/Dark-Forest, so exactly the same race as Conner's father. Wonder how a Dark Forest elf was able to mate with the unexiled Kaylaria in Alphar lands, but ehh, love finds a way. Gotta say your sheets left me with quite a few questions: Kandric's eyes are written as hazel (which is some shade of yellow/brown) and green. Does he have heterochromia just like Zoldon and Klandon? Not related, but since I was rereading the Saga to gather up a list of names... Who is this "Keddad" that Conner mentioned in Chapter 23? Keddad seems to be the son of Conner's step-dad who I assume is Kandric's biological father, and yet Kaylaria does not include him among her children nor is he Aster's Twin, Prince Bayne. Which means he is either a dead mythlet or not her biological son, which would imply Kyvin cheated on her?? Heterochromia is one eye color different from the other. Klandon and Zoldon have one eye that is distinctly lighter than the other (as in, one is grey and the other is blue). There is no mention of Kandric's eyes being of a different color from each other, only that they tend to shift from hazel to green. I had a close friend when I was younger who's eyes were the same way. They were listed as hazel on his driver's license but were actually closer to green most of the time. If they sun hit his face right, they looked almost brown, though As far as Kedded goes. He was Conner's step brother, being his step fathers natural son. However, people are assuming that Connor's stepfather was Kandric's father. No mention of that is made, and it is possible that the stepson being referred to is from one of the other fathers of her other kids. One cannot assume that all the kids except Kandric came from the same father. We know that Aster's father was killed before he was born. Connor's father was a dark forest elf. There are other kids between Connor and Kandric, and no mention is made about whether they had the same father as Connor. Considering the promiscuity of Kylaria, it is entirely possible that there is another (or even several more) father in there somewhere and when he left, Kedded left with him. That is just speculation, of course as there is nothing that I have found in the story to prove or disprove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zergrinch Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Edit: @roger0002: It was said that Conner's step-dad was killed in a mining accident, apparently instigated by the former Overseer (who has yet to get a name!). This was the same step-dad who brought him into the Junsac orphanage. So I'm going to conclude that this person and Kandric's father are one and the same. (Besides, based on Kyle's replies to the "Ask a Character" thread, Kaylaria was really in love with Kyvin, and it looked like she became a spinster after his death. Now the only question is, where is Keddad?) Allow me to reiterate my stance on prostitution. I accept that it is a matter of course in the Kandric universe, and do not pass judgment on Kaylaria for selling her body. I have not seen any indication in-Universe that infidelity - even for one night - is acceptable behavior, and hence I do pass judgment on Gablon. It's not really the health issues - he can certainly take care of himself. It's loyalty - which appears to be a pretty important theme in the Universe. I'll give you that slavery is also acceptable, but there are beings within the story who oppose it. Now, the characters: For a less-involved (and more nonchalant) evaluation: If you like large walls of text: Vondum: he was initially written to be very cruel, and as time goes on, companionship with Kandric softened him up. He still has sadistic tendences and is someone I would place on Chaotic Neutral alignment, bordering on anti-villain. Would I like to see more of Vondum... we've seen a lot already. But I would like to see more of that soft side, yes. Glaster: there is a duality to Glaster. In Chapter 1, we see both sides at work. I would actually place him very near Vondum's alignment, given his loyalty to the King on one side, and his sadistic tendencies on the other. Lawful Neutral, but this time bordering on anti-hero as I find him slightly more redeemable than Vondum. Having regained his arm, and almost certainly going to be reunited soon with Kandric, Glaster's character arc is almost done. I am starting to fear he will be one of the casualties in the coming battle royale, and would like to learn more about his past before he bites it. Monarch: I don't like Monarch when he was first introduced, but his formal introduction to Kandric softened my impression of him. I view him as a Lawful Evil character. He has a code that he lives by, but has caused much pain and suffering because of his ambition. Monarch appears to have been pushed back to the background. Do I want to see more of him -- we have a chapter full of his internal monologue, but certainly I want to see him in actual combat. Lannet: I like Lannet and his paternal mien. He has established an easy relationship with his fellow Watch members and Aster in particular. Were it not for the fact that he himself admitted to using the watch markers for selfish motives, he would be up there on my list. Lawful Good. I am not sure Lannet would bring anything new to the table in future installments, unless he has some shocking past that ties in with the Gods-Mythling war... Bandurloc: Monarch started it, but he is certainly willing to finish it. Although he is undoubtedly not the nicest being in the world, I would like to see more of him - he's such a scene stealer. He displays high intelligence and pragmatism, and is not above swallowing his pride. Lawful Evil. Klent: He was introduced as a ruffian with a soft interior. He is laudable in the sense that he is very much willing to change his ways, but I don't like him that much and I'm not eager to see him again. Not because of who he is, but because of his place in the story. (I know, that's not very fair.) Klent is considerably weaker than the main cast, and any time the story shifts to him, it feels to me like backsliding in an RPG. I would rate Klent as Chaotic Good. Jory: Although he has gotten a lot of screen time so to speak, I haven't formed an opinion on Jory. What comes to mind, fair or not, is his apparent materialism in him continuing to sell his body. While I sympathize with prostitution as a means of survival, I don't sympathize as much if it were a way to earn pocket money. I don't have a good read on Jory yet, although I have him pegged as a Chaotic Neutral. I'm kind of indifferent about seeing him again. Sardan: Has the Prince of the Hawklings ever dropped his guard? Despite featuring in a ton of chapters, I can't really think of a time when he did so (unlike, say, Pocet). I get the sense that he is this stoic birdman warrior who engages in banter during rare occasions. Lawful Good in my eyes. If he can get more backstory and engage in higher-level fighting, I'd be glad to see more of him. Sy: We've really gotten into Sy's head during his interaction with Jamon, and I like what I see. This walking mountain of a man has a heart of gold, and is probably a much better man than Vondum. Lawful Good. In the only scene where he saw some action, Sy was totally outshone by Kandric, so if he were to appear again, I'd rather see him take a much more active role. Kaylaria: In early chapters, she was written as a snooty and uncaring mother, grasping at Alphar traditions like some sort of a lifeline. She is not going to win any awards for mother of the year. While her behavior is perfectly explainable in her desire to redeem herself and her children, that impression has stuck with me into this day. Lawful Neutral. She is currently very unsympathetic to me, so if she were to appear again, I'd prefer something that might change my perspective on her (I don't know, maybe learning that some high-faluting human caused Kyvin to die or something might be quite interesting) Falk: Thissss myssssterioussss blue dragonling issss apparently in the running for the possssition of Ssssorcerer Ssssupreme (Dr. Ssstrange holding on line 1!). But aside from his incredible power and loyalty to the King, I haven't seen other facets of his personality and his inner motivation. Certainly there is nothing to suggest he is evil or even ignoble, but we haven't seen very much of him. I would like to see him play a larger role. Up to now, he seems to be Lawful Good. Would like to learn more about his past - specifically why is he loyal to a human and not to a blue dragon king. Pangam: I don't recall much about this character - red dragonling right? He only appeared in two major occasions - during the caravan attack, and again when rescuing the Slome students from the Greens/Blacks. He is one of the characters who I consider to have a hidden agenda. As long as he is operating with an agenda, any interaction he has with Kandric or Kandric's students I will always find suspect. Chaotic Neutral. I'm honestly not that interested in red dragons - don't trust 'em. Anarton: He seems to be driven by a strong hatred for Gambra. I understand that from his history, he used to be a Dark Mage too, since the Wraith Sect aspect of his skill is a subfield, not a main field. It certainly takes guts to sever ties that way. However, like Saslara, he has always been presented as a teacher, a sensei of sorts. I am going to put him on the Lawful Neutral list. Unlike Saslara, I currently don't find him interesting enough to want to see more of him. Things I hope to see: Anything to give a personality to the drow shaman, Gardagem More background on the Highman prince - and more background on what Highmen are and why they are extinct Meeting an actual Warlord of Moldor Reunion of Klandon and Zoldon Kandric, meet Aster and Conner. Everyone, this is Bayne. (I'm sure this is coming.... in a few years ) Vondum, Pontarius. Captain Pontarius, General Vondum. Wonder how he would treat his nephew and his skunk. Some resolution to the Conth subplot where he keeps delving into Vondum's head Some explanation to Aster's strange dream. I'm still not sure if it's a tie-in with Sands of Time, or some kind of meeting with the gods Prince Rovanall started with a more favorable impression, but I felt his character was railroaded into being a meanie-mean in Chapters 28 and 29. Is this is true personality emerging? I hope not. King Wyrhem and Queen Jostallis actually in combat (not necessarily with each other!) Legionnaire! What's that? 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roger0002 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Now the real question, since I seem to see a great deal of interest in this subject of good and bad characters... Where would you rate any or all of the following? Vondum Glaster Monarch Lannet Bandurloc Klent Jory Sardan Sy Kaylaria Falk Pangam Anarton In order: Vondum is an opportunist. He takes the side of the winner to make himself look good. Glaster is a sadist. He likes to torment others, especially the boys that he manages to get for himself. Granted, he is willing to kill others to protect them, but there is the distinct feeling that perhaps he is the one that they need to be protected from. Monarch is greedy. He wants to have his own kingdom and will go to extremes to get it. He also seems to be a bit on the childish side, wanting it to be his way only. Consider the tantrum he throws when the Gnoll showed up in his camp. Lannet is a hard one to figure out. He means well, but does then does tend to use some extreme measures to do things. Bandurlok is cut from the same mold as Monarch. Greedy to the point of waging a civil war to get what he think is rightfully his. Klent is another hard one to judge. He is what in D&D I would rate as chaotic good. He leans toward good, but think about it. "His kind of people" were hired by Gambra to attack a merchant caravan and kill everyone but one kid. He didn't hire on because he didn't like Gambra, not that he was unwilling to do the job. Still, he means well. Jory is a good kid, just a victim of circumstances. He is a survivor and has a lot of issues that have built up over the course of his short life. Hence, his attitude with the bandits. He was willing to parlay, but at a certain point just said the heck with it. Sardan is primarily a good person, but as Zergrinch said, he's a Watch member, and they tend to be a tad unethical in a good portion of their activities. Sy is another survivor. He was a beggar living in a swamp, like Kandric and like Kandric he found a way to get trained. While he may not like the way his boss does things, he doesn't exactly do anything to stop it. Military training tends to do that, but its still not an excuse for the way he treats some of the others. Kaylaria is a princess who got thrown out on her own. She seems to prefer to put the blame on the bad things in her life on others, like it is anyone else's fault but hers. Nevermind that she got pregnant by a non royal lower class forest elf, even though she had been promised to a member of another royal family. Even then, when things didn't go well, it was either Kandric's fault, Darmoth's fault, Conner's fault or her father's fault. She even basically says that a child's purpose is to make their parents look good in the eyes of others, or else. Falk is another hard one. He seems to be on the side of good, doing what's right, most of the time, but then again....he is a blue Dragonling that doesn't want to acknowledge that there is a ruler of the Blue Dragon homeland. He condemns Glaster's love for boys but then qualifies it by saying it would be okay if he did things to slaves. Then, down in Everone, when the Harkener shows up, he just noncholantly executes the Hobgoblin leader, so he can chat uninterrupted. Pangam isn't really described in much detail, other than being a Red Dragonling who appears to be in some sort of leadership position. There is something there that hasn't been revealed yet. Anarton. Now there is a man. He was as evil as you can be, given his background. Being a Dark Mage means he did some pretty nasty stuff, but when it came to family, he seems to have seen the light, so to speak. Now he actively seeks out others that were touched by dark magic and teaches them how to beat it. He is a strict disciplinarian when it comes to that training, and what he expects in payment for the training seems to be a bit above what should be. Yet he is ruthless when it comes to dealing with dark mages. I think he is good overall, but with a darker side that tries to come out a lot. Not bad, considering I did that from memory of the story. I haven't reread it in months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Aarons Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Zergrinch, I love the chart. It is sure an interesting way of looking at characters! Also thank you for letting me know what you would want to see in the Kandric story. I would like to see more about what others would like to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigrillon Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Now the real question, since I seem to see a great deal of interest in this subject of good and bad characters... Where would you rate any or all of the following? Vondum Glaster Monarch Lannet Bandurloc Klent Jory Sardan Sy Kaylaria Falk Pangam Anarton Vondum: There was that kid, he found himself and his little brother in a trap ar a very young age, and realized his and his brothers vulneability and helplessness. Then, to protect his brother, he found himself in the role of enforcer, and learnt that he was not quite as helpless, and could protect himself by being harsh to others. Ant then he realized, he liked that power, and enjoyed making others suffer. And he began to loath himself. But he couldn't risk being helpless again by apperaing weak. So he betrayed his brother. And began to really loathed himself for that. And here we have Vondum: A power hungry, sadistic monster. But deep inside he is still this frghtened little boy whom he has to protect by all means. And so he lashes against anyone like a wounded animal. A monster wth a human heart. Glaster: Absolutely ruthless, he takes what he wants, if he can get away with it. Loyal to his own, in that he takes from others for them as ruthless as for himself, but he comes first, then his people, and the rest can go to hell. A perfect godfather. He is honest, but not trustworthy: He well tell you he is screwig you, but he will screw you, if he can. He is not the frightened little kid lashing out like Vondum, he is just a textbook psychopath. Not exactly evil, but, well, ruthless. Monarch: A slum kid who wants to be part of the high society, he wants to, wants to, wants to. He lies in his tent hitting the floor for not being accepted. Unfortunately, he lacks any social skills to blend in, and tries to conquer his place in society by the means he lerned in his street gang, and doesn't realize that what he does to get access into society is exactly what prevents his aceptance. He tries to threaten people into acknowledhing he's no thread. He wants to be good, but doesn't know how. A Monster who doesn't wannt to be a monster, but can't help it. Lannet: Cannot really say. Badurlok: Now that's a piece of art. The classical rich brat, used to get everything and get away with it. Arrogant SOB caring about nobody but himself. A monster and proud of it. Klent: The wannabe villian. Rich kid that isn't satisfed being a rich kid and tries to act as bad boy, but really isn't, and in doubt knows where papa's money is. Detests the parent's lifestile, but never found his own. Hangs out with the street gang to apper tough, but actually still is the well raised gentleman he doesn't want t be. Near the top of rhe "good" list. Jory: A good kid severely damaged by bad circumstances. Sardan: Cannot really say. He is a prince who does a rather un-princely job. Obviousy he is not satisfied sitting in his palace, bit want's to make a difference. Near the top of rhe "good" list. Sy: A slum kid who escaped, and knows who saved him. Hardened by experience but basically good. Just unable to stand up against Vondum, who is his personal hero. He was what Kandric is. Kaylaria: Uncaring, heartless, self centered bitch. What's more to say? Well high on the "bad" list. Falk: A very obscure personality ... Pangam: can't say at all Anarton: Another wannabe villain? Would depend on how he became a dark mage. He could have been tricked, or forced, or could have been genuinely interested. But be that as it may: There was a border he wouldn't cross, and he broke loose. Like Monarch he wants acceptance into society. Unless Monarch he knows how to behave. Like Glaster, he demands sexual service from hias students, but unlike Glaster, he doesn't screw them over to get his hands on them. Near the top of the "good" list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigrillon Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Ah ja, what would I like to see: A more comprehensive historical background. The whole Drow/Highmen plot (what's going inthere?), and what's with Under River? The King and his sons, and what becomes of them. Pontarious meeting Vomdum, of course. Oh, and Glaster's next encounter wth Kandric ... And what's with all that forgotten magic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Aarons Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 not sure what you mean about the king and his sons and what becomes of them. They are all accounted for and in story and King Whyrem knows both boys are alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigrillon Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 not sure what you mean about the king and his sons and what becomes of them. They are all accounted for and in story and King Whyrem knows both boys are alive. Well, he knows that, but he still won't like too much what he sees when he gets them back, even if he now knows why. There's a lot of damage to recover from. Or to not recover from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Aarons Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 So, this is open to anyone to answer- curious if you were King Whyrem, what would you do knowing what he knows about his twins ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zergrinch Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Hunt down Gambra, Gardagem, and Monarch and torture them till they die? I am assuming the authority equals asskicking trope (and its cousin asskicking equals authority) applies to the Kandric universe (since we don't have any indication about the King's field, subfield and echelon - at best I can assume he is trained because of his willingness to mix it up in the arena to defend his newest son, and he is at least Master level echelon because apparently he gets a vote in the guilds.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Good Bad, naughty or nice, Make'm whatever you want, just give us MORE! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigrillon Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 So, this is open to anyone to answer- curious if you were King Whyrem, what would you do knowing what he knows about his twins ? I have to admit to not having listend well to Glaster's teaching, so I forgot about the impossibility to take kowledge away. With that in mind, the whole matter looks completely different. As both boys have proven, the knowlege they ganed in their prevous lives is still present, hey just don't know about it. And it comes out when, and only when, it's needed. So Zoldon knew about the warlords of Molden then tey were talked about, but not before. And Klandon knew to handle Dragonsteads and use weapons, but only when the neccessity arose. Now to Zoldon: While he acted the major brat, he did so out of despait, in fact, he wanted the other children to dislike him, and was quite effective in making them. Besides that, he secretly tried to learn what he was missing. Si the basic problem with him was he didn't live to the princely education he was suppased to have had. Now that it's out he never had that education, the first order of business will be to give it to him, starting from scratch. This won't be too easy, and he wil come out rougher around the edges as he would have growing up in the palace, but that might even be a good thing. He should simply be treated as if he were another adopted son brought up by peasants. He could share classes with Bane on that. His previous education won't hurt, but bring in skills he wouldn't have learned in the palace. As his knowledge onl come thrugh when nedded, he might never regain everathing he once had, but that won't hurt, either, because anything he does regain will be a bonus. Now Klandon is another matter: While deeply damaged, he still has his royal education. It didn't show, as it wasn't needed, and the right questions where not asked. But as his education would be well documented, it will be easy now to ask these, and bring his education back. But he will have lost his familiar bonds and personality, and as I understand, this might be permanent, so new bonds will have to be build, and his personality be rebuild. The first order of business will thus be to reaquaint him with his father, and reintegrate him into the royel caste, but again, as if he were a new addition to the family. He has the mentality of a slave, and it will be hard work to unlearn that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Aarons Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 OK, so which child should be given the title of crown prince? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis_p Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 So, this is open to anyone to answer- curious if you were King Whyrem, what would you do knowing what he knows about his twins ? Kyle... First off I would do what you are having him do now... Get to Rolling Dale with a sizable army and secure his sons... then he should learn all he can about what happened to both boys and take into account their present conditions and get the best information about the prognosis for each boy... from the shamans, mindhealers, Glaster and others that he trusts then and only then will he be able to make a knowledgeable, and hopefully a not to emotional, decision. OK, so which child should be given the title of crown prince? Now Kyle... It depends on the boys' recoveries... With Zoldon [nee Klandon] current mentality he would not be able to hold on to power if given the crown in his current state... Even though he received a 'Royal' education, it still would not be enough to over come his current 'Slave' like state of mind... If given the crown he would need a regent through out his life to insure that a usurper could not usurp his throne... given his current state. Now KllNDON [NEE Zoldon] is another boy all together... yes he has not had a 'Royal' education but he has had an even better eduction; a street eduction... Given his strength of determination to change and better himself plus the fact that he his currently under the tutelage of Glaster he has a better chance in the long run to grow into a all around good king... given his current state of mind That said... it all depends on how the boys recover from their current conditions... plus what decision King Wyhrem comes to... If you remember Glaster worried about this whole situation in Chapter 28... “The last thing he wanted was to let word leak out of the disappearance of Prince Klandon and the reappearance of Zoldon. Should the other powerful houses find out there would be a feeding frenzy as they would point out neither boy could be trusted with the crown since they had been taken and held for so long. This would force King Wyhrem to either appoint a suitable crown prince from another house or snub his nose at everyone and leave the crown on Klandon, or Zoldon, whichever he cared to call the boy Glaster had with him.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zergrinch Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I concur that currently, "Klandon" (Zoldon) appears to be more suitable. HOWEVER, he also had way more "screen time" than his living statue twin. I can think of four alternatives the King can try: Have the twins face off in an arena deathmatch. No holds barred. Of course, they will only battle to unconsciousness, so no permanent damage. But seeing as how Glaster can cast a regrow-limbs spell now, I suppose getting fingers or even arms lopped off is totally acceptable now! Have Glaster and the Watch devise the appropriate physical, mental and attitudinal trials, with succession passing on to the most qualified. After all, being a King takes brains, brawn, AND heart. Hold elections by popular vote. Allow for write-ins. Choose them BOTH - heck, toss in Bayne too. The street-smarts of Zoldon and Bayne will mesh well with Klandon's book smarts. Unless co-regency is not a thing? Seeing the type of meritocratic crapsack world the Kandric Universe is, I am guessing option number 1 is more likely. It will certainly be more exciting to read. Unless of course you choose to regale us with political maneuvering instead of combat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigrillon Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Well, there seems to be agreement that "currently" Zoldon would be the most suitable. And due to his dual experience probably will remain so (Klandon doen's have dual experience, he didn't learn anyting while being a human statue). Now taking into account potential feeding frenzies, he is not only the best suited, but also the safest bet, because, if he continues being "Klandon", "Klandon" was never missing. His catching up on royal education can be disguised as prolnged recovering from his ilness, which can be made upto have been much more serious than anyone thought. Klandon could then be the long lost "Zoldon". Unfortunately, this would leave a stripped of his heritage Klandon, and he will know it. It wouldn't be possible to have him believe being the lost Zoldon, because even if he doesn't ever remember being Klandon, he will realize he's the one having been educated. If he would ever clan to be the real Klandon, it would mean cvil war... And no Kyle, my name's neither Wyhrem nor Kyle, so I'm not the one to have to make that decision ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Aarons Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 not really asking for a decision, just wondered what others would do and figured it could spur an interesting conversation. Next discussion generating toping (I hope)- what character do you want to see developed more in the next chapter and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zergrinch Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Easy one for me. If this is indeed approaching the end of the tale, I want more background on the saga's ultimate villains. Other than being cackling and irredeemably evil (or just being generally shadowy), there has been no character development on Gambra or Gardagem. You don't strike me as the type of author who likes to write one-dimensional villains, so totally hoping there is something in the works about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigrillon Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Actually, one of the open ends is Anarton questioning the demon, so I think background information on Gambra is on the way. And with the discovery of the lost passage and the appearance of Chark’ash-Shunral there seems to be opened a new main story arc, so I'd guess we are about to here quite a few thigs about Drow in general and Under River and Gardagem (or was ist Gardagam?) in particular. (And ig not, that's something I would be interested in.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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