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Readers - Please tell us...


D'Artagnon

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Authors want to know what you think and feel about their stories.  Praise is good, but I think more so authors want to know what you are feeling about the story.

 

Do you like the characters?

 

Do you identify with the plot, or moments within the story?

 

Are there things you dislike about the story?

 

Are there typos or spelling errors that seem to distract from the narrative?

 

Do you feel that the plot is too obvious?  Too obscure?  Too bland?

 

Authors need this sort of feedback.  I'm sure that authors would welcome discussion with readers about the stories they write.  So please, don't feel shy.  Honest and genuine debate, criticism, and questions not only improve how writers write, but can lead to new stories.  Perhaps better stories.  Likely such input could lead to stories more to your particular liking as a reader.

 

And perhaps such discussions could inspire you or other readers to take up the pen themselves.

 

Our forum is about the free exchange of ideas.  It is for the readers as well as the writers.  So feel free to jump into the fray!  There are sections here about asking particular characters questions.  Authors love those discussions.  No matter how frivolous the question, you'll almost always get something interesting as a reply.  Each story has it's own discussion thread, as well as author's sections.  Feel free to post questions in there as well.  If you feel shy about it, you can usually post a personal message to the authors.

 

So step right up, voice your opinion, thoughts, feelings and in some cases complaints.  All are welcome.  Join in the fun!

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D'Artagnon, good post. As I get older, I have seen how much feedback can help in most situations. So now I try to give constructive feedback on surveys and even contact companies when employees are superb. But I do have a question for you and other authors... At what point should I ( or anyone) write a private e-mail, especially if it contains critical feedback, instead of a public post? I never ever want to come across as too critical or embarrass/ hurt the feelings of an author. Somewhere there is a fine line between public posting and interesting feedback we all would enjoy and comment on and more private oriented messages. Sorry this is so short but more later when we get back to England.

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Well, I can't speak for all the other authors on this particular question, Mark, but I do have a possible solution that should satisfy most of the issues you bring up.  Before I do that, though, I must say that you posed an interesting and thoughtful question and in doing so you are already helping inform the debate on feedback and critical appraisal of the stories here.  And for that, I thank you.

 

As for the question itself, which you wrote as..."At what point should I ( or anyone) write a private e-mail, especially if it contains critical feedback, instead of a public post? I never ever want to come across as too critical or embarrass/ hurt the feelings of an author. Somewhere there is a fine line between public posting and interesting feedback we all would enjoy and comment on and more private oriented messages."

 

My answer for this is that if you feel something may be perceived as overly critical, possibly taken out of context or spur negative responses, perhaps take it up with the author directly first.  If it is something that the author thinks you have a legitimate stance on (whether in agreement with the author or not) then perhaps the two of you can decide if it needs to be posted  

 

I should make it clear, as a moderator of this forum, that the only things we don't allow on here for commentary are advertisements (for obvious reasons) and personal attacks.  It is perfectly within any member's purview, guests as well for that matter, to make comments, suggestions and criticisms of the stories presented here.  You can even be nasty and use "bad words" or disparaging tone in such, as long as you don't make threats or attempt to waylay the character of the author.  For the record, such slander on web sites can be used as evidence in court in a growing number of jurisdictions.

 

So, if it's a concern, go to your brother first before you bring it before the family.  Otherwise, let the whole family know.  We want to stimulate debate and discussion.  We want to give necessary feedback and, well, authors respond just like any other artist.  The audience should be an active participant in the art just as the performer.

 

I hope that answers the question.  I invite other authors to add their comments to this question, pro or con or alternative.  There's plenty of room to find what works, as long as we keep it civil, and keep trying.

 

Thanks again for a great question Mark... err, I mean a great question, Mark, not a great question mark.  Oh, you know what I mean!

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I have only one exception to make to what has been stated with regards to vulgar or not so nice language. It is okay, in so far as it is not excessive. Sometimes such language is useful to make a point. If used to make a point or express an emotion all is fine. If every other word is vulgar then you are just being disruptive and that will not be allowed.

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Let me give you an example of what one author wants.

 

He wants real criticism. Tear his story or chapter apart. You don't think his character would do what the author has him doing? Tell him. Lay it out as to why the scene was bad. Why the character wouldn't do it. etc.

 

This author wants you to brutally honest. Praise him where it is merited, but slam him where it is warranted.

 

Not all authors are like that. There are some that will only accept praise. Meh!

 

Most authors will take both. It does make them better writers.

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Let me give you an example of what one author wants.

 

He wants real criticism. Tear his story or chapter apart. You don't think his character would do what the author has him doing? Tell him. Lay it out as to why the scene was bad. Why the character wouldn't do it. etc.

 

This author wants you to brutally honest. Praise him where it is merited, but slam him where it is warranted.

 

Not all authors are like that. There are some that will only accept praise. Meh!

 

Most authors will take both. It does make them better writers.

Exactly there is only one way for us to get better tell us the truth no matter how much it hurts

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"Ok, Ken and Alan," he said while drinking a rum and coke in Shanghai after a long day, "I hear what you both are saying and as a new author myself, would like honest feedback too. It just is I really do not care for offending someone but if it makes them better..."

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Let me give you an example of what one author wants.

 

He wants real criticism. Tear his story or chapter apart. You don't think his character would do what the author has him doing? Tell him. Lay it out as to why the scene was bad. Why the character wouldn't do it. etc.

 

This author wants you to brutally honest. Praise him where it is merited, but slam him where it is warranted.

 

Not all authors are like that. There are some that will only accept praise. Meh!

 

Most authors will take both. It does make them better writers.

I find myself wondering where you got that snippet from -- sound a bit too much like me, but I don't think I ever wrote it!

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So, authors. Suppose I list down in detail all typographical errors and awkward phrasing (basically spelling and grammar), would you consider that as valid criticism or puerile nitpicking? ;)

 

no that's only your OCD :P lol jokes aside if it will make a story/chapter better sure point it out...just don't become too lost in the details that you miss on the bigger pic. :)

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  • 2 months later...

For me, I think it would help to know which authors want that brutal honesty and which would prefer to not hear anything critical of the story.  I honestly don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and sometimes slip into the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" camp.  For the most part, if I stick with a story long enough to get to the end, then the author did a decent job.  I don't always write to the author even if I did enjoy the story, but that's just because we as readers get lazy sometimes.

 

Zergrinch mentioned spelling and grammar earlier.  Those are the things I notice the most.  I'm not talking about the occasional typo, though.  I've read some otherwise fantastic stories, but get tripped up while reading over things like "your" when they meant "you're."  I know everyone makes a mistake once in a while, but in some stories it happens consistently.  It gets to the point where I start subconsciously looking for those things, almost expecting them, instead of following the plot and dialogue of the story.  Another one that I see a lot is there/their/they're.  The last I'll mention is "should of" "could of" "would of" when the author meant "should have" "could have" or "would have."  The last one I can ignore when it's part of dialogue within quotation marks, but the first two can't be justified the same way.  It may seem petty because just by the context of the story, I knew what the writer meant.  It just gets distracting.

 

I guess if I have a question or comment on this whole thing it's this.  What is the editing process like for most of you?  Is the editor just looking for plot consistency or are they proof reading too?  Should the last edit be simply a proof read?

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For me, I think it would help to know which authors want that brutal honesty and which would prefer to not hear anything critical of the story.  I honestly don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and sometimes slip into the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" camp.  For the most part, if I stick with a story long enough to get to the end, then the author did a decent job.  I don't always write to the author even if I did enjoy the story, but that's just because we as readers get lazy sometimes.

As I've said before... and frequently...

 

Please, be brutally honest with me!

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As an author who is just barely beginning to learn this craft, I have no experience and no training. I absolutely want honesty, and as much feedback, positive and negative, as possible. I want to get better. If I get offended, that's my problem, not the reader/commentator's. I'm responsible for how I feel about the comments. And I choose to be grateful for them. 

 

I have had the privilege of a few hundred people writing me to tell me their thoughts about my first story. For the most part, the comments have been overwhelming positive, which is nice. I appreciate them. But the ones I really crave are the comments that suggest how to improve the story, the characterizations, the plot, the emotions, etc. I have even forged some friendships with people who have taken an active interest in making the story better. That's how I found the four guys who do the bulk of the editing. I chose them because I knew from their comments they truly cared about the story being good. And I've got some very, very good editors.

 

So bring it on....

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Steve, I edit for an author on CR but am not part of the CR admin team so can not answer for them. But for me, when I edit, I look for both plot consistency as well as grammar/spelling errors. Plus if the author would like improvement suggestions, I do that too. Some of the authors I have edited for want that and have told me so quite up front, others just want editing and that is all. I feel I do a very good job and my authors have told me I do, but authors and editors are only human, grin....

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Steve? If you have read between the lines, you will have picked up on the idea that within the RU, there is a team of editors that do their best to present those stories to you, the reader.

 

The other part is that for all the other authors that Castle Roland hosts, they have their own editors... Or they should. Some don't and that's a shame, but that's also life.

 

Regardless, will you find spelling and grammar errors? Yes you will. No one is perfect and mistakes will get through. Even if a dozen editors go through the document. It's just the nature of the game. Look at any physical book. You will find mistakes, and the editors that go through that type of publication are paid professionals, as opposed to the rest of us that volunteer our help.

 

Now, having said all of that, I do the coding, along with Scott, of the stories and chapters that are published on the website. Do I see errors as I code the story? You bet I do. I try to contact the author and get permission to make the edit. Not all of our hosted authors respond. So without their permission, I cannot "fix" the story... So it goes live without correction. Nothing we can do about that.

 

Even if a reader spots something and tells us about it, without the permission of the author (owner of the story), we can't correct it.

 

The only exception to the above, are the actual RU stories themselves. Spot something there, and we can get it corrected pretty darn quick.

 

I hope this is helps you to understand the process that is involved in publishing copyrighted works.

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Steve,

 

Be honest, let us know you feel. If you have suggestions or corrections tell us. 
Most of the Authors on here are not professional and are trying really hard to learn to improve themselves. The only way to do that is to know what your doing wrong. My one caution is if your really don't like an authors style or plot don't be mean.  A new author can loose there will to try from one mean comment. Me on the other hand I have tough skin say what you feel and I will learn from it.

 

Also if your critiquing an author my suggestion is to send them a private message or email. Doing so on the public forum might embarrass them.

 

Look forward to hearing from you

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here is a general comment from someone who is not yet a writer.  In creative areas that I have been involved with, such as web design, I have found that constructive negative criticism is more useful than praise.  "That looks really good!" can make one feel nice, but where do yo go with it?

 

On the other hand, consider "Those two images at the top are out of balance, and the one on the right is blurry."  I don't really know what she thinks of the page in total, but she did care enough to offer an opinion which might make the page better.

 

I think Thumper's Law ("If you don't have anything nice to say, ...") is most applicable to personal attacks.  Offering honest feedback is useful, even if the author, designer, etc., chooses not to incorporate the suggestion.  Some people don't have good social skills when they post, but I think most folks can filter the tone if there is actual thoughtful critique embedded within.

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