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Gay in Russia, Nuclear Iran, A Terrorist State, and a Global China


Billy Martin

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Note: This is in response to another forum post. I did a separate post because while I agree that we have brothers and sisters in danger ALL across this world, including Russia, just because of who they love, I have so much more to say about his topic, but others as well.

 

Even without watching the HBO documentary, Hunted: The War against Gays in Russia, there's no doubt in my mind that Putin is dragging Mother Russian back into the glorious days of the USSR, all across the political, financial, and social boards.

 

Most liberals laughed at the 2012 Republican Presidential Candidate when he voiced his opinion that Russia is a geopolitical foe and that the USA should have left troops in Iraq with a status of forces agreement (SOFA). The bottom line is, Obama’s and Clinton’s “re-set” with Russia was and is a complete failure.

 

The following and below is proof of several propensities practiced by this president and his administration. One, you should note that Romney in the 2012 debates allowed the president to speak uninterrupted, but the president does not allow Romney the same courtesy. I won’t say all, but most of the liberal talking heads on TV and liberal politians talk over anyone that doesn’t agree with them. Or put another way, the party of tolerance and inclusiveness' leadership, spokesmen, and some rank and file members are only tolerant and include those that agree with them.

 

Second, this president and his administration lie. They lie about the small things like this large donor’s son involvement in the Secret Service prostitution scandal in Colombia in 2012. Jonathan Dach, then a 25-year-old Yale student and volunteer on the advance team. His father, Leslie Dach, is a prolific Democratic donor and currently works in the Obama administration, in the Department of Health and Human Services. According to the Washington Post, Jonathan Dach himself ironically now works, on contract, as an adviser in the State Department's Office on Global Women's Issues.

 

It has been said that they are lies and then they are damn lies. The damn lies: the IRS scandal (maybe it isn’t a scandal to you now, but if it was the gay alliance?), Benghaz, “If you like your doctor…”, “Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency.”, or how about another small lie, “My father left my family when I was 2 years old.”

 

How then can anyone be surprised that Russia is turning back into the USSR or that terrorism is threatening the whole Middle East and the world at large, with the three stooges (Obama, Clinton, and Biden) we had running our foreign policy the last 6 years. Every threat (A Global Communist China for one) to our national security looms larger today than it did 6 years ago, thanks to this administration's policies.

 

In closing, the following is a transcript of Romney and Obama's back and forth argument over Russia and Iraq in a 2012 debate. If you are honest with yourself, you'll see the lies and the rude behavior.

 

OBAMA: Gov. Romney, I’m glad that you recognize that Al Qaida is a threat, because a few months ago when you were asked what’s the biggest geopolitical threat facing America, you said Russia, not Al Qaida; you said Russia, in the 1980s, they’re now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.

 

But governor, when it comes to our foreign policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s, just like the social policies of the 1950s and the economic policies of the 1920s.

 

You say that you’re not interested in duplicating what happened in Iraq. But just a few weeks ago, you said you think we should have more troops in Iraq right now. And the — the challenge we have — I know you haven’t been in a position to actually execute foreign policy — but every time you’ve offered an opinion, you’ve been wrong. You said we should have gone into Iraq, despite that fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction.

 

You said that we should still have troops in Iraq to this day. You indicated that we shouldn’t be passing nuclear treaties with Russia despite the fact that 71 senators, Democrats and Republicans, voted for it. You said that, first, we should not have a timeline in Afghanistan. Then you said we should. Now you say maybe or it depends, which means not only were you wrong, but you were also confusing in sending mixed messages both to our troops and our allies.

 

So, what — what we need to do with respect to the Middle East is strong, steady leadership, not wrong and reckless leadership that is all over the map. And unfortunately, that’s the kind of opinions that you’ve offered throughout this campaign, and it is not a recipe for American strength, or keeping America safe over the long haul.

 

SCHIEFFER: I’m going to add a couple of minutes here to give you a chance to respond.

 

ROMNEY: Well, of course I don’t concur with what the president said about my own record and the things that I’ve said. They don’t happen to be accurate. But — but I can say this, that we’re talking about the Middle East and how to help the Middle East reject the kind of terrorism we’re seeing, and the rising tide of tumult and — and confusion. And — and attacking me is not an agenda. Attacking me is not talking about how we’re going to deal with the challenges that exist in the Middle East, and take advantage of the opportunity there, and stem the tide of this violence.

 

But I’ll respond to a couple of things that you mentioned. First of all, Russia I indicated is a geopolitical foe. Not…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

ROMNEY: Excuse me. It’s a geopolitical foe, and I said in the same — in the same paragraph I said, and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I’m not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia, or Mr. Putin. And I’m certainly not going to say to him, I’ll give you more flexibility after the election. After the election, he’ll get more backbone. Number two, with regards to Iraq, you and I agreed I believe that there should be a status of forces agreement.

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

ROMNEY: Oh you didn’t? You didn’t want a status of…

 

OBAMA: What I would not have had done was left 10,000 troops in Iraq that would tie us down. And that certainly would not help us in the Middle East.

 

ROMNEY: I’m sorry, you actually — there was a — there was an effort on the part of the president to have a status of forces agreement, and I concurred in that, and said that we should have some number of troops that stayed on. That was something I concurred with…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

OBAMA: Governor…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

ROMNEY: …that your posture. That was my posture as well. You thought it should have been 5,000 troops…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

OBAMA: Governor?

 

ROMNEY: … I thought there should have been more troops, but you know what? The answer was we got…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

ROMNEY: … no troops through whatsoever.

 

OBAMA: This was just a few weeks ago that you indicated that we should still have troops in Iraq.

 

ROMNEY: No, I…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

ROMNEY: …I’m sorry that’s a…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

OBAMA: You — you…

 

ROMNEY: …that’s a — I indicated…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

OBAMA: …major speech.

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

ROMNEY: …I indicated that you failed to put in place a status…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

OBAMA: Governor?

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

ROMNEY: …of forces agreement at the end of the conflict that existed.

 

OBAMA: Governor — here — here’s — here’s one thing…

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

OBAMA: …here’s one thing I’ve learned as commander in chief.

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

SCHIEFFER: Let him answer…

 

OBAMA: You’ve got to be clear, both to our allies and our enemies, about where you stand and what you mean. You just gave a speech a few weeks ago in which you said we should still have troops in Iraq. That is not a recipe for making sure that we are taking advantage of the opportunities and meeting the challenges of the Middle East.

 

Now, it is absolutely true that we cannot just meet these challenges militarily. And so what I’ve done throughout my presidency and will continue to do is, number one, make sure that these countries are supporting our counterterrorism efforts.

 

Number two, make sure that they are standing by our interests in Israel’s security, because it is a true friend and our greatest ally in the region.

 

Number three, we do have to make sure that we’re protecting religious minorities and women because these countries can’t develop unless all the population, not just half of it, is developing.

 

Number four, we do have to develop their economic — their economic capabilities.

 

But number five, the other thing that we have to do is recognize that we can’t continue to do nation building in these regions. Part of American leadership is making sure that we’re doing nation building here at home. That will help us maintain the kind of American leadership that we need.

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Billy, the one comment I am going to interject is something I saw the last time I seriously watched a Presidential debate.  it was enough to so thoroughly disgust me that the most I've done is look in on occasion at other ones to see if they still do it.

 

Even ignoring the habit of trying to talk over each other -- which is frequently caused by trying to score a whole bunch of points before letting the other side respond rather than handling issues point by point -- both sides have a habit of completely and utterly ignoring what the other is actually saying.

 

Person-A tries to use True-Fact-A to win a point on Person-B, who counters with True-Fact-B.  True-Fact-A is not countered by or countering True-Fact-B; they are complimentary, equally true facts.  Person-A wants to focus on Fact-A because it supports his position.  Person-B focuses on Fact-B because it supports his position.  Both facts are true, but they illuminate a different facet of the truth.

 

A good example was the debate I mentioned earlier that disgusted me.  I don't remember the candidate names (I think it was actually the Vice-Presidential debate, not the Presidential).  One candidate brought up that America was the single largest contributor to the forces present in Iraq.  This was true.  The other disagreed, not by disputing the underlying fact, but by trying to highlight that the US was simply one member out of an international coalition providing that support, and that the other members provided more support in total than we did.  Neither side acknowledged the other's points, they simply bounced back and forth on those two facts without any give.  The first candidate was right, we provided more than any single other nation, the second candidate was right in that the support we provided wasn't even the majority of the support.

 

Neither listened to the other's point, however.  They just re-iterated their version of the truth.

 

Until we fix that issue, our politics are doomed to failure.  And contrary to your position, it's an issue on both sides of the political spectrum.

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Until we fix that issue, our politics are doomed to failure.  And contrary to your position, it's an issue on both sides of the political spectrum.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Point out one thing that Romney said through-out the whole year of 2012 or any year for that matter that was or is a lie. I don't mean an opinion, but a lie.

 

However, I must agree with you on the debate style that is used today. We need real Lincoln/Douglas style debates. Who cares is half the population doesn't watch. Hell, they don't watch now. Those of us that care, will and appreciate it.

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I couldn't disagree more. Point out one thing that Romney said through-out the whole year of 2012 or any year for that matter that was or is a lie. I don't mean an opinion, but a lie.

Billy, I think you need to re-read what I said.  I never said anyone lied.  They simply had different opinions on the truth -- different ways of emphasizing and interpreting the facts.  And they were so wrapped up in emphasis and interpretation that supported their position, they had no room left to pay attention to the arguments of their opponent.

 

I don't follow politics closely as a result of that disgusting episode, but from what little I've seen that's been a continued trend.  Which is one of the reasons why Congress keeps getting deadlocked along partisan lines -- neither side will listen to or cooperate with the other unless made to.

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Billy, I think you need to re-read what I said.  I never said anyone lied.

 

I stand corrected. You are right, you never said anyone lied. However, I am. The lies and damn lies has this country worse off now than it was 6 years ago. That is my central point. Even though I didn't vote for him in 2008, I respected him as my President. However, given the record of the past 6 years, can ANYone believe a thing coming from his mouth?

 

Messing with the IRS was the first indictment of impeachment for Nixon which had to do with using the IRS illegally. Targeting foes. "Using If you like you doctor you can keep him." was the HUGE sale point of obamacare. A Damn lie and when a Congessman called it a lie, leftist Washington had a fit. Yet, it WAS a lie. That's one of the reason I'm against obamacare. Another reason is it was shoved down the country's throat without a "single" republican vote.

 

All this shows why we should never ever give the power of the Presidency to a person that has never had a real job. Obama has never stopped being a community organizer or stopped campaigning which is pretty much the same thing when you look up the meaning of the words.

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I am just going to make a comment on politics in general.

In my youth i was member of a politic partie, so i know very well the backstage of politics.

Politics by there very ensency are liers, in campaign they will promisse thing they will never do, and when in govermen what today is true tommorow is a lie.

So do not belive them, do not trust them, they have there on agendas and will do our say anithing to get your vote.

They will even back stabe there on partie colegues if that give then more political power.

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I'm sorry you feel the way you do about politics. I refuse to believe that all involved in politics are only in it for themselves. Do I believe that they can be blinded in their quest to reach their goals and make mistakes in not supporting causes that benefits the greater good? Yes. Can the tenor of the debate cause them and their supporters to harden their position? Yes.

 

I have no problem with the lack of new laws being passed by the US congress. Frankly, I find it troubling that the success of congress is based on the number of new laws passed. Because several new laws have been passed in the last 14 years that in my opinion have made the USA weaker and less free: patriot act and obamacare. Your opinion may differ and that's why we elect people that seem to agree with our own views. And when there is no majority on a given issue, no law is passed.

 

Like the church, men run the government and men will fail you. The president, congressman, senator, and judge are all human with human failings. There is NO perfect system of government if it is ran by humans. It takes a free people that is engaged to make a democratic republic work. So truly, I don't blame the government for it's failings. No, I blame the people. For when people sit back and say there's no use in participating because they are all liars and crooks, then perhaps we (western civilization) are doomed to follow the Roman Empire.  After all, the people in a free sociality IS the government.

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The state of Gay People in the United States is a curious situation. We tell ourselves that we are a nation of laws and reasonable people. The latter is not consistent with how Gay People are treated, or, perhaps, I should say, not treated. They are treated like lesser creatures, not fully human. Why is that? There is no reasonable explanation for such callous treatment, nor for that matter, is there a religious reason for it, contrary to the bigots screaming in one's face about HOMO-SEX-UALS tainting our children. It is a manufactured fear, distributed by raving maniacs at every opportunity. I have lived for a very long time and I have yet to see a Gay Person steal a child or commit any fiendish plot! Sexual Predators, most  certainly, but those are criminals who prey on us all, regardless of orientation. Being Gay is not a disease, nor can someone be "turned Gay" by another person. Many scientists believe it is something within the individual, that they are born that way. Personally, I believe that to be true. I have to ask then, just WHAT is so objectionable about a gay person? For the most part, they are law-abiding, responsible citizens, they are rarely violent, do not rob, murder, pillage or steal. They pay their taxes, serve in the military, hold responsible jobs and do all the things that "good citizens" do. What is it that people find so threatening that they must pass laws, riot and commit murder to rid themselves of a gay person? There is only ONE explanation, they feel threatened! It simply is NOT possible for a person to turn someone else Gay, any more than they could turn them from being a Caucasian, into Chinese! The only explanation I can come up with is POWER! It gives someone POWER to be able to destroy another person, in much the same manner as ADOLPH HITLER. It is, pure and simple, a matter of POWER. To be able to manipulate people to achieve one's goals, again, POWER!  Crowds of people are easy to manipulate, if you are brave enough, try yelling , "FIRE" on a crowded bus!

 

 

I know all this is of no comfort to the Gay Person who has been a victim of these monsters, but I can say to those who have been victims, that there ARE people out there who care and we ARE trying to make things better!

 

Charles Bird

SeaBird

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  • 1 year later...

 

Where the hell did that come from?  One thing for sure I'm not doing, is drinking what a lot of folks are...

keep-drinking-the-kool-aid-obama-liberal

Billy, with the up most respect, If you are watching cable news,... You are drinking Kool Aide...

Edited by larkin
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LOL I happen to read several papers, online news, and yes, I watch cable news. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make what they say regurgitated bull paddies :) I could draw conclusions about you by just your present location.

Besides, it's plain for all to see, who has eyes to see, that Obama has lied to the American people over and over and has now left us worse off with every country in the world, with the exception of Iran, Russia, and China.

Pray tell, are you actually happy with the state of the world today?

 

Speaking of eyes to see, it reminds me of a joke. Once there was a little boy out in front of the Democratic Convention selling little puppies with a sign that said they were democratic puppies. Two good friends, one a democrat and the other a republican, walked by the little boy and stopped when they saw what the boy was up to. The democratic friend said to the republican, "There you go my friend, the youth of America are learning that our party is the best for them." The republican turned to the little boy and inquired, "How much are those democratic puppies, young man.?" "One hundred dollars sir." the boy replied with a smile. The republican turned to his friend. "That's a good price, you should buy one." And the democratic friend did.

A coupe of weeks later the same boy was at the Republican Convention selling his puppies again, but this time he had a sign that said, "Republican puppies for sell". The same two friends came walking by and the democratic friend was dismayed as his republican friend was nearing rolling on the ground in laughter. The democrat angered by what he saw asked the boy what was the meaning of this. The boy replied, "Sir, when you bought that puppy a couple of weeks ago, it was only four weeks old. These are six weeks old now, and have their eyes open."

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  • 2 weeks later...

And...

I could draw conclusions about you by just your present location.

Perhaps I could return the comment about your present location but I will resist the temptation.. 

And,..

Pray tell, are you actually happy with the state of the world today?

I would say that I might be several times more pissed off than you are but I cut the cable in 2006 and seek elsewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiippmWxKLQ.

I agree with D'Artagnon.  Whether republican or democrat, there is reason to worry.

What we are witnessing is a circus.  At best, you could call it performance art.   

Trump is just a trial to assess just what and how much we will tolerate.  Trump is not a statesman, he is an actor. I think that he is preparing the field for somebody else, perhaps, Jeb Bush, who would surely be worse.

These people didn't come up through popular movements, they have been presented to us and we are suppose to choose.  Like Plato's Cave, it is an illusion. 

The truth is that it no longer matters who you vote for because the agenda is already in place.  The new President, whether it be Hilary, or Trump or Cruz is nothing more than vice president in charge of public relation.     

This is what Barack Obama has taught me. I voted for him and I was excited when he won.  I think that he is basically a good man, a highly intelligent man and a constitutional scholar but he has been a weak president. The policies advanced are not his. Barack Obama is following orders laid out by forces unseen.  They are the same forces that will meet the next president when he or she arrives in office.

We are living in an oligopoly and it serves no purpose in voting other than to give the impression of a democracy..

Have you noticed that all of these candidates are pro-war except perhaps Bernie?  Most of the time they talk about superficial things like nuance of personality, individual demeanor or scandal.  On the rare times that they talk about issues they quibble and lay blame and many issues raised are not in the realm of government. 

D'Artagnon is right,  This is exactly how Hitler came to power. He exploited prejudice, he used emotion and he worked with industry that wanted war for profit.

The thing I fear most is the charismatic.  A leader who comes out of nowhere to save us..."Beware"

But for us, we have already been disenfranchised.  It no longer matters who you vote for.  Republican or Democrat are essentially the same because they are both corporate and it is the corporations who are running the world.

To quote Chris Hedges, "The only thing we have left is the street..."

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You said a lot here. Much we disagree on, but that's okay, because everyone has the right to their own opinions. Unlike some in America and around the world, I would fight for the right for others to be able to publicly express their opinions. However, what had me responding to you to begin with, was your uncalled for characterization of how I come to my opinions. In my last post I pointed out I could do the same, but you seemed to have missed my point. When someone starts a conversation with me by belittling my intelligence or how inept I am at gathering facts to form my opinions and beliefs, it's no longer a conversation, but an attack on my character, my being.

Finally, quoting Chris Hedges says all I need to know.

Nevertheless, I won't belittle your opinions because of the seeds they spring from, I would still fight for your right to express them. Just please, spare me from them with your superior attitude.

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I want to remind everyone that when expressing your thoughts and opinions on the forums that you do so without getting personal. I have been following this topic and hoped the issue would pass without incident. Please remember to discuss the topic and do not get personal with other members.

Thank you for your time and understanding.

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