Anjobranco Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Back from vacations. I think this is a very troubling topic, and deserves some consideration. http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/06/islamic-state-of-iraq-and-syria-produces-video-recruiting-muslims-in-u-s-and-europe-for-jihad-in-syria-domestic-jihad-attacks http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28116033 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29004253 The so call Islamic nation. Why so many young men are attracted to this extremism? What are modern society doing wrong to push so many to the arms of terrorism? I can not understand this and can not find an answer for it? Can some one give some answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Roland Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 well the answer is not easy, plus this is nothing new. not really. Religion, no matter which faith, has a way of drawing people into it, and making them do things that normally they would not. That goes for both good and ill. lots of people forget that this is not the first time that a Holy War has been fought... the only difference is, this time there is the media out there that gets information out. (and no i am not going to comment on the validity of the information, just saying that they are getting information out). The Crusades happened in much the same way as this current holy war is. again, the only real difference is the tech that they have to use. other that that, it's exactly the same. Today they cry out "Allahu Akbar". In the Past, they cried out "God Wills It". the point is, it is nothing new, nor is it the fault of modern society. The fault lies in one place, and one place only. Humanity. As with all things, Humans know what they are taught, and as a general rule, fear what they do not understand. with humans, fear normally turns to aggression. aggression turns to hate.... and so forth. Add on top of that, men and women who have the gift of speech. those people who can inspire and lead others. They are the ones that rise to the top. they are the ones that lead other people to do things in the name of what ever they are following. These are powerful people, made even more powerful by the people that follow them. Add onto that, the fact that most humans do not like to lead, they like to follow. believing whatever their leader tells them to believe. these are the truly dangerous people, since they can rationalize ANY act. Until such time that ALL humans can learn to accept that other people have the right to hold their own beliefs, and that NO ONE has the right to force someone to believe or NOT believe what they wish, will there be peace in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnon Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 NBC NEWS is reporting that ISIS has beheaded journalist Steven Sotloff, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilbur Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'm gonna have to disagree, slightly, with Roland. It's not about accepting that others believe differently. To borrow the terminology in Eric Flint's Mother of Demons, It's about the difference between the Question and the Answer. Human beings are drawn to the certainty of the answer -- we want there to be One True Way. We want to believe, because we hate doubt. Until people learn to embrace the question instead, the ability to open your minds and wonder, we're going to have shit like this. A fanatic is, at the end of the day, someone who has chosen a Truth and will do anything to support it, to destroy those who dare question it -- or rather, make him question it. It's easier to label those who disagree 'heretic' and kill them than the try to answer their questions, or to accept that their questions undermine your faith. Steve T. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjobranco Posted September 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Will be the solution the revocation of citizenship and the seizure of passports? With the current relatively easy in finding fake IDs and fake passports, will this measure would have any real impact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnon Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 The middle east has been a cauldron of turmoil, religious fervor and genocidal regimes since before Alexander the Great. And even he was an invader. There are rivalries at play here that have continued long, long, long after the original causes of such have been forgotten. And let's be really honest here: unless you are already in Asia, it is beyond unfeasible to begin and sustain a land war in Asia. Period. How much treasure, resources, talent and blood are we going to pour into a situation that only wants more? How many lives must be sacrificed to the various religious entities in the area for there to be peace, because there surely will be no peace while things remain as they are. Part of me is so sick of all the fighting and talk of evil things going on there. That part says we should just build a wall 40ft high around the whole place, and either fill it with sea water (so no one can have that land) or just let those who want it so badly live and fight it out in there until only one group is left. Then we can deal with them or ignore them as we choose. I know that may seem cynical, but I've had friends die in this conflict. I've seen family members in the military struggling with the wounds of war. I've seen people I know deal with the stresses and fears associated with long deployments. I am from a military family. My father served in the Navy in the Persian Gulf in the late 70's - early 80's. After watching all of these things, over all these years, I see the same things happening over and over. Outside forces should stay out unless asked to intervene. Even then, well... Let's just say that in this modern world, many of us in the west seem to have forgotten that the purpose of vigorous armed conflict only takes three purposes: Defensive actions against active aggression, Acquiring territory and resources, or Genocide. Marcus Aurelius, the philosopher emperor of Rome, tells us to ask of each thing what it actually is. What is the nature of a thing. What is it's essence, function, action, use, function and purpose. What is ISIS doing? What is it's goal? How did it come into being? How is it funded and supplied? Why does it do what it does? And how? We must ask these things and then decide if we as a planet should allow it. We also, and I do not like the track this takes in my own mind, must meet with equal force that which we oppose. If this means that the only language that ISIS understands is brutality, perhaps that is what they will respond to. A friend of mine recommended that we get the worst of our criminals, arm them and send them over to the Ukraine to attack the secret Russians there and ISIS controlled areas to lay waste to the ISIS fighters. I don't know if that would make things any better or worse, but it seems to me that animals stuck in a pit will wound each other until they both slay each other. I dunno, maybe some solutions need to be bitter... I seriously wish not. But when logic and compassion fail.... what else can we do? I honestly want to know. What do you all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjobranco Posted September 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 We should just bomb the hell out of them and make huge lakes of there countries. And for the worlds problems just invent some time machine and kill tow people. The one that invented religion and the other that invented money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabird Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Anjobranco, Ordinarily, the current events in the Middle East would not present a dramtic danger to either Europe OR the United States. However, the political conditions that presently are engaging the United States leave us AND Europe pretty much unprotected. We have a long border to the south of us that is pretty much wide open and recent events clearly demonstrate that neither the United States nor the Mexican Government is going to do any security work. I will not attempt to explain this problem, it goes very deep and it is looking like it will get worse before it gets better. Contrary to some political hacks, the United States is NOT perfect. Our military forces right now are at a low ebb, about as low as it was just prior to WW2 and, for about the same reasons. Both our own people and those of Europe have been depending upon the military might of the United States to maintain order world wide. Now, that is no longer possible. Oh, sure, we could still bomb the middle east back to the caves, but, really, do we want to do that? It sounds like a nice, safe solution but, in the long run, such an act would cause major problems for us all. Those countries along the Med are first in line to receive these fanatics and worse, there are large Muslim communities within your own borders. Whether they will fight against any Muslim invader is questionable and, only to a slightly lesser degree, the same problem exists here in the United States. It is a case of "Damned if we do and Damed if we don't." I believe we have already passed the point of "No Return" and, as shakey as the world economy is, we are in for a "helluva bumpy ride"! An equally as bad situation exists in the Crimea area and, again, the European countries are in the first line of trouble. I do not believe it is a matter of "IF", but, rather, "WHEN". I know this all sounds terribly depressing and those of my generation have been through this at least twice before. Things have changed mightyly since that last time the world was faced with a situation this grave and I fear the consequences. I do no fear for myself, but rather for my children and grandchilren and, soon perhaps ,my Great Grandchildren. I am not presenting a very pretty picture of the future and, maybe I am just a gloomy old man, but, I have kicked around this old world of our a lot of years and many places and I do not hold out much optimism for our future. SeaBird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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