Gay Rights

[GayActivist]

Curious to see where you stand.

 

Do you think gay people have the same rights as everyone else?

 

Do you think gay people have a right to get married?

 

Do you think gay people are asking for special rights or equal rights?

 

Do you think gay people should be fired just because of their sexuality?

 

Should religious beliefs be a basis for allowing discrimination against gay people? Such as business's denying to serve gay people, such as bakery's, or photographer's, or any business. There is even a movement underway that would make laws that say that it would be legal for a Police Officer, Doctor, or Fireman or city, state employee to refuse to serve someone on the basis of their religious beliefs.

[Guest chip321]

I have been out for over 40 years. I have sen the highs and lows and now the highs again in the fight for LGBT rights. Things are moving in the right direction, there will be setbacks, but overall we will be finally treated like every other human with full righs and responsibility.

[GayActivist]

hey chip, it has been a roller-coaster for sure. It boggles my mind how closeted and hidden our older brothers and sisters had to be. The level of hate they had to face. I would hope, if I lived then, that I would of been as strong as some of them were. Not sure I could of survived back when you could of been killed without little regard, or beaten or outcast or even put into mental hospitals.

 

Things are not near as bad today, thankfully. We still have issues of course. I hope you are right that the progress made thus far continues. I am just worried about the fundamental right getting in the senate, house or white house and move to undo all the gains we have made. Hopefully that is an unwarranted fear as the public seems to have shifted on this issue that the politicians will take the hint.

[Emperor Roland]

Wellllll.... lets start off with stiring the hornets nest a bit shall me. 

 

First off, understand that i am Bi, although more gay leaning, I went through some rough periods of my life with struggling to figure out just who and what i am.  but, that is in the past.as to your questions... the answers may suprise you. 

 

1.  "Do you think gay people have the same rights as everyone else?" 

Should they, of course, do they?  Not yet, but things are moving.  but also remember, the word you used is RIGHTS... which means different things to different people.  I will go further into detail in the other questions....

 

2.  "Do you think gay people have a right to get married?" 

NO!  (i just pissed someone.. well maybe a lot of someone's off, but please, read my full answer before calling for a tar and feathering... lol)  Marriage is, in it's historical context, a religious ceminony.  it has grown to mean something else in this day and age, but the fact is, marrige is, in itself a religious institution that has spawned into a legal one.  in my personal opinion, EVERYONE should have to do a 'civil union' or what ever you want to call it, and then if the religuos people want to go through a 'marrage cerimony' let them. 

 

3.  "Do you think gay people are asking for special rights or equal rights?" 

For the most part, most people are asking for equal rights.  but there are several of the more vocal members who want to be treated with special rights.  Unfortunitly, i feel that a lot of the higher ups in the gay movement, at least the ones that demand that no one be allowed to say anyhting negative about gays, have gone the way of PETA.  important when they started, but have now turned into a bunch of wack jobs.  Remember, the Rights that we are fighting for, to be able to walk down the streets holding the hands of the person we love, are the same rights that allow those who disagree with us, to say so.  As a wise man once said, 'when the rigths of one person are trampled, the rights of ALL people are trampled."  The people that refuse to accept the fact that people have the RIGHT to have a negative opinion of gays, make them no better then the religious nuts that say all gays should be killed off. 

 

4.  "Do you think gay people should be fired just because of their sexuality?" 

Absolutly YES!  again, let me explain.  I am someone who believes that EVERYONE is entitled to maximum personal freedom.  that includes buisnesses as well.  and if they idiots running it are stupid enough to fire someone because of thier sexuality, then fine.  chances are, they will lose a lot of very good employees, and the buisness will suffer.  again, freedom is the most important thing to consider, and sometimes it makes decions like this hard.  becuase remember again, if you advocate for one gorup to LOSE thier freedom, then you are no better then those that thinks gays should not have thier freedom as well. 

 

5.  "Should religious beliefs be a basis for allowing discrimination against gay people? Such as business's denying to serve gay people, such as bakery's, or photographer's, or any business. There is even a movement underway that would make laws that say that it would be legal for a Police Officer, Doctor, or Fireman or city, state employee to refuse to serve someone on the basis of their religious beliefs." 

 

Boy this is a loaded one, with lots of different questions, so let me take them one at a time. 

 

     a.  "Should religious beliefs be a basis for allowing discrimination against gay people?" 

Yes.  as i said before, freedom is the most important thing to consider.  that also means that the gay people have the freedom to tell others what happened, and excercise thier freedom to speech to make sure that the religion is known for who and what they really are.  my father once told me, and i do not know if he was quoting someone else, but he said.  "You can NOT legislate morality."  in other words, rules and laws can not make a homophobe into someone who likes gays.  what normally happens is it makes them even more rabid in thier hatred. 

 

     b.  "Such as business's denying to serve gay people, such as bakery's, or photographer's, or any business." 

Again, yes.  They have the right to serve whom ever they like.  but again, the people that are wronged by this have a recourse.  and it shoudl not be with laws, becuase laws are made to LIMIT freedom, not expand it. 

 

     c.  "There is even a movement underway that would make laws that say that it would be legal for a Police Officer, Doctor, or Fireman or city, state employee to refuse to serve someone on the basis of their religious beliefs." 

And now you have found the one area that i have to limit my fierce defence of freedom.  becuase the people that you have listed have the responsibility to protect, and in many cases save lives.  IN this gorup there is no place for prejusice, at least while they are 'on duty'  Yes that is difficult to deal with, but as someone who has worked in both the emergency medical field, as well as the fire fighting field i can say this much.  even the most homophobic and prejudiced people i met, left that at the door when it came to an emergency call.  as far as the vast majority of the people in those fields go, when in times of emergency, we are people first, everything else second. 

 

 

Now, if you have actually read all of this, i am sure there are many that disagree with me, and i accept that.  Hell i would love to have a tactful debate on the topic.  just please remember, things need to be kept civil, if not, then the topic will be shut down.  we are all adults here, and should be able to debate a topic like this, as adults. 

[Al Norris]

Alrighty Then...

 

I really, really, want to see such a debate happen: Adults taking an emotionally biased discussion, as, um, adults. Not as they usually do... Which means they usually tend to dissolve into a pissing contest.

 

Roland? By your answers, I would "label" you as a small "l" libertarian.

 

Maximum freedom is, of course, the answer. and the corollary: law is a restriction of personal freedom. The problem is that we must have some law. Society cannot function without it. And that means that anarchy is not allowed. The biggest bloke with the biggest weapon cannot be allowed to rule the roost. So we have law. Which limits freedom.

 

This also means I agree with everything you have just written.

[GayActivist]

Hmm, I sort of see where you are coming from with the marriage issue. I would however have to disagree. If you do a bit of, well deep research, you will find there was a time when the early church actually performed gay marriages. It was when the church moved towards being more tyrannical in their control of the populace that it was down away with.

 

With the advent of governments to replace the control, so to speak, of the populace they took over governance of certain things. Many so they would have some means by which to raise funds to operate the government. Therefore, marriage is a civil contract, under the government. As such it should be applied equally to heterosexuals and homosexuals. The church, of course, has a right to either permit said marriages within their own churches or religion. Currently under law, churches are not forced to perform any marriage they do not wish to. Thus there are churches which do not perform interracial marriages. Fine that is there choice.

 

Since Marriage is a civil contract now, the state has given priests and clergy the right to perform said marriages in a legally binding manner, by performing the ceremony and signing the marriage certificate. Even though they are empowered by the state, they still do not have to perform gay marriages if they so choose. That is as it should be.

 

As for business's denying service to those who are gay. Well, as you said, free market dynamics could, in theory, address that issue. But I point to the plight of the African Americans. If the free market dynamic was applied to that situation, black people would never have been allowed to sit at the lunch counter, or allowed into a "white only" establishment. If you are in a business that serves the public, then you should not be turning people away. Because you are a business owner and you have religious views that say you are against a certain type of people does not mean that you should base your business on that religion, because at that point you are forcing your religion onto others whose religious beliefs are different. It seems a slippery slope to allow business's to assert religious beliefs. Then you could end up with businesses that will refuse service to women, to Muslims, to the disabled, to gay people and who knows what else. Free market dynamics in theory should work, but sadly they do not always, thus some measure of law must keep things equal and in check.

 

As for religion being the basis to discriminate. If that is what a religion or church or pastor or priest wants to do, have it. The problem is when said religion, church, pastor or priest works to actively legislate his or her religious views onto society. You are free to say what you want, when you want, how you want. But by god when you start asserting your religious moral compass onto me, then there is hell to be had. Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. The argument can and often is made that many if not most of our laws are in whole or in part based on Christian morality. The distinction I would make is that the laws are there to protect all of society from harm. Laws are not made, or should not be, that targets any specific segment of society from having the same legal protections that the rest of society has, or infringe on the rights of others. 

[Guest chip321]

this tells the true idea of traditional marrige from a bible perspective.

 

[techmanjoy]

I read this post a while back while it was still sort of new and never responded. I've taken some time now to think it over and there are many interesting topics brought up here.

 

I want to start by saying I am a gay male, however I will be trying to keep my writing as second person as possible. I do this to try to protect the integrity of my words and to prevent myself from absently arguing for a cause I personally believe in for one reason or another. I want to be as objective as possible in this while presenting my own opinions as well.

 

 

Wow, there is so much here and so much of it is between the lines as one might put it. You bring up some very heated topics and I am very glad to see that so many have been able to comment so clearly and maturely.

 

I want to start by addressing a little of the between the lines line of thinking. I believe that your questions relate strongly to the whole LGBT community as a whole and I believe that it has been taken as such here however I wanted to make a point of saying it. These issues are at the heart of society in many countries right now and moving forward with them is something we have to do carefully and with mutual respect for all parties involved (I'll touch on that a little more later). And there is no one right answer for anything here. The fact that societies have to put laws out there to "enforce freedoms" is a really troublesome matter and shows there is more at stake any single individual or community's liberties and values.

 

As Lord Roland mentioned, laws tend to protect rights by limiting freedoms. Any time we have to put a law in place to protect one group we limit another. This is a crucial balancing act, and one that so many of us take for granted. It would be great if we could slap a law out there that said no one can discriminate against another on the basis of sexuality. However in doing so we would make the group or groups who backed this law and pushed for it would be seen as an instigator to limit individual freedoms. I'm not saying that anyone would say that, but look at how well it worked in the United States for African Americans. Even to this day there is a large group of people who look at this community as something disdainful; whether that is because they feel they are protected legally in ways that another group isn't or they feel that the group has used and abused the system to their advantage. I would go so far as to say most don't feel this way, however there are still many who do and it creates problems for the African American society in the US to this day. While I'm not advocating against seeking equal rights and liberties I do feel we have better options than to seek laws limiting the civil and civic liberties of the communities which they bind.

 

As I said earlier, we have to move forward carefully and with mutually for all parties involved in these issues. I feel that so many of the leaders of the civil rights movements and the leaders of the LGBT communities forget that those of us in the LGBT community are not the only ones affected. These topics affect every member of society, no matter the community they belong to. As we make progress towards achieving equal rights we impact the communities who would deny us those rights and the communities who have achieved these rights or would seek to achieve those rights in the future. Every action we take has consequences no matter how large or small. In society I feel there is real credence to the 'butterfly effect'. We have to keep the future and past of every minority and majority in mind as we seek to change our world. Especially when we change it for the better.

 

Right, sorry I got a little winded and a little off topic there, however it all leads to the questions in an important fashion.

• Do you think gay people have the same rights as everyone else?

Absolutely! However I believe it is important that these rights be protected equally without being applied to any single group. Any law meant to protect a single community's rights can never stand. And no definition of rights is correct unless applied to all communities as a whole. What I mean by this is that any law written to protect the rights of a group should be written to include all groups. Such as, "No person may be discriminated upon the basis of their sexuality for determining eligibility of employment". This should certainly not be written as "No gay man may be discriminated upon the basis of his sexuality for determining eligibility of employment". Only by advocating for all communities at one time can any law be seen as fair and equal and protecting the rights of every person. Writing the law to define person or citizen instead of identifying a group protects both ways and prevents the community being protected from being seen as getting unfounded or "special" rights where they may abuse them.

• Do you think gay people have a right to get married?

Marriage... This depends on the context you mean.

 

If you mean should the gay community have the right to hold a ceremony religious or not to proclaim their love and devotion to one another then they already have it in almost every country. I don't know of many countries where the LGBT community is discriminated against so harshly that they would face persecution and or prosecution for preforming this ceremony. Yes, there are absolutely some places where this isn't true and I feel that in these places they should have the right. But for the most part there is are no laws stating that two men, two women, or other forms of couples cannot get together and hold a marriage ceremony and show their love and devotion to each other and to the communities to which they belong.

 

However, if you mean in a legal context where they should receive the same benefits and legal obligations as an opposite sex couple then absolutely this is something that needs to change around the world and be accepted. In the barest sense legal marriage is proof and binding obligation for you to share your life with another and to shoulder the responsibilities together under the law. This creates both challenges and gives benefits. Government shouldn't discriminate because a couple is of the same gender and disallow a legal contract to be formed. This hurts every community in the long run not just those of the gay community. Marriage creates stability in communities and a strong social fiber binding our societies together. By discriminating against any group in this the ultimate result is a less stable society.

• Do you think gay people are asking for special rights or equal rights?

Wow! This is an absolutely loaded question and it is something I have been wondering since I discovered my own sexuality. Gay Rights, this is a term that I hear a lot anymore and it really makes me wonder. As I said earlier any law that protects the rights of one group without defending the rights of every group can never stand and is ultimately unjust. I disagree so strongly with the term and I feel that many of the leaders of the "Gay Rights" movements have lost their sense of direction. In many ways yes, I feel that our community is asking for special rights. A lot of the gay community is asking to be protected from discrimination in ways that no other group is. They aren't pressing to improve our governments and culture by requiring that these rights be protected for every person. This isn't true of every member of the LGBT culture; however on a large scale I believe that many have lost sight of what it means to have rights and to protect them. Many are caught up in the fight for their individual liberties they forget about society as a collection of all communities.

 

Having said that, I believe that the rights we are asking for exist in a different form for most other communities. While there is no legal protection saying that a heterosexual man cannot be denied employment based on his sexuality it is ultimately a moot point. However I strongly feel that to ask for a right for one group you must ask for it for all to protect the rights of every individual equally.

• Do you think gay people should be fired just because of their sexuality?

Absolutely not, however defending a point such as this is very difficult. I don't feel that any person should be fired for their sexuality. However, this doesn't mean I feel that there should be legal precedence for defending oneself from losing a job because of your sexuality. This is more a moral and ethical dilemma than a legal one.

• Should religious beliefs be a basis for allowing discrimination against gay people? Such as businesses denying serving gay people, such as bakery's, or photographer's, or any business. There is even a movement underway that would make laws that say that it would be legal for a Police Officer, Doctor, or Fireman or city, state employee to refuse to serve someone on the basis of their religious beliefs.

On this, I completely agree with Lord Roland. Anything else I might have to add would only be repetition of his points.

 

 

--edit--

 

WOW! Right, I should have ran this through a spell checker before posting. Sorry I'll run this through and update the post in a moment!

 

--edit--

 

Right, sorry. Cleared that all up I hope!

[Anjobranco]

Do you think gay people have the same rights as everyone else?

 

1 Yes, but this should not be about rights, every body as rights, i have the right to live my live as I wish, and they have the right to be homophobic, the problem is when those rights become wrongs, nobody have the right to impose their point of view to others

 

Do you think gay people have a right to get married?

 

2 Yes, I do not agree whit Roland on this one, perhaps because we are from different country’s and have different interpretations of marriage, Here we have religious marriage, civil marriage and civil union. Legally the only one that mater it is the civil marriage, the religious one it is just a big glorified party, that do not have legal standing, everybody has to have a civil one before the religious, the civil union it is just tow person that decide to live together on the same house, “Committed or stable marriage is the legal principle that legally establishes the coexistence between two people, which is approved for both the "stable union" is Similar to civil marriage. In light of the Portuguese legislation is "the legal status of two people who, not being married to each other or with others, regardless of gender, to live in similar to that of marriage, conditions for over two years" “ The problem it is that this did not give the same legal benefits of civil one.

 

Do you think gay people are asking for special rights or equal rights?

 

3 I agree whit Roland on this one, for the majority yes but some are going over the board on this.

 

Do you think gay people should be fired just because of their sexuality?

 

No, I do not agree whit Roland, if so I should be able to fire some one just because they are straight, probably another cultural difference between us lol. If I am not mistake Roland you are from North America? Here we have laws that gives something call job security, you can not be fire just because your boss it is in a bad mood they have to have justified reasons to fire, and that its apply to all people regardless there sexuality gender etc etc, another thing its being hired, if they do not want to hired you because you are gay that is there problem, but to hired some one and fire them because of it, no I do not agree.

 

Should religious beliefs be a basis for allowing discrimination against gay people? Such as business's denying to serve gay people, such as bakery's, or photographer's, or any business. There is even a movement underway that would make laws that say that it would be legal for a Police Officer, Doctor, or Fireman or city, state employee to refuse to serve someone on the basis of their religious beliefs.

4 On this one I am just going to put here the 13º Article of the Portuguese Constitution

 

Article 13. º

Principle of equality

 

1. All citizens have equal social dignity and are equal before the law.

 

2. Nobody can be privileged, favored, prejudiced, deprived of any right or exempted from any duty on the basis of ancestry, sex, race, language, territory of origin, religion, political or ideological convictions, education, economic status, social status or sexual orientation.

[Zach Caldwell]

I just wanted to make a quick reply here to everyone. Thank you for the lively debate. I am sure it will continue for a bit longer. But thank you to everyone who has participated thus far. Various positions have been expressed and everyone has treated everyone else with respect. This is how it should work in civil discourse. Thank you again to everyone.

[ken barber]

Interesting Topic and interesting to see so much diversity in the responses. 

Before I give you my response you should know that I am an openly gay male. I grew up in a Mormon household and was deeply closeted until I was 25, fifteen years ago. 

My coming out caused much Havoc in my family,however after a few years my family has grown closer because of it. None of us are practicing Mormons at this point.

 

Do you think gay people have the same rights as everyone else?

                         No gay, Bi, Lesbian, or Transgender do not currently have the same rights as everyone else. We are seeing more progress here everyday but we are not there yet

Do you think gay people have a right to get married?

                        Yes, many people will claim "traditional" marriage is between a man and woman.  This is completely inaccurate marriage predates christianity's definition. Marriage is ancient and has changed with history. If you look back to the ancient greeks, romans, or even egyptians their concepts of marriage was very different then what we have today.  Today Marriage is a civic partnership between two people recognized and sanctioned by the state.  To exclude anyone from this is inherently denying them the same rights as everyone else. The Religious Ceremony that accompanies marriage is a completely different story. Churches have a right to discriminate based on their belief structure but only in the confines of worship. They should not be allowed to carry that discrimination outside of their Institution.

Do you think gay people are asking for special rights or equal rights?

                       Most of us are looking for equal rights. We want to be treated the same and afforded the same rights as everyone else. The special rights argument gets complicated. In order to protect and minority class of people special legal action has to happen. creating a law that states we can not be terminated for our special orientation is a special right however its designed to give us the same right as heterosexuals. You cannot legal terminate someone from their job because they they sleep with the opposite sex. This is basic right and if you did try to terminate them they would sue and your would loose. Not the case with gays

Do you think gay people should be fired just because of their sexuality?

                     Opps I think I answered this above

Should religious beliefs be a basis for allowing discrimination against gay people? Such as business's denying to serve gay people, such as bakery's, or photographer's, or any business. There is even a movement underway that would make laws that say that it would be legal for a Police Officer, Doctor, or Fireman or city, state employee to refuse to serve someone on the basis of their religious beliefs.

                    Wow loaded question. Yes but only in the confines of the religious institution. Not in everyday business dealings. Every business has the right to make the very bad business choice of not serving anyone they want. Should there be legal protection for this kind of poor business logic, no. Every business has the right to fail or succeed based on their business model. Their should not be laws requiring them to serve gays but there should not be laws protecting that decision as well.  Police, Medical, Fire, city and state employees cannot and should not be allowed to discriminate on any basis.  These are social services paid for by the tax payer (Except Medical but that is a different discussion). No one can be left our of these services and any laws contrary will be overturned by the supreme court as not constitutional.

 

Ok thats my two cents worth

 

Ken Barber 

[tkyrchncs]

I think there is a historical prejudice toward gay people, and that we are sometimes cheated of our rights and freedoms, legally and illegally, because of this historical prejudice.  And I think that this historical prejudice is religious, specifically, in this country, "Christian" in origin, and this religious prejudice is reflected in our laws, and this is fundamentally wrong.  The basis for a non-tax law in our country should be the protection of the persons, property, and rights of individuals, and though people may believe whatever they want, and practice their religions within reason, NO ONE and NO GROUP, majority or not, should be able to enshrine their religious views in laws or regulations, here or anywhere else.  I am firmly convinced that freedom of religion is a basic human right and is only possible if each citizen may be free FROM any religion, should he so choose.  I also believe that the right to choose is unquestionable and inalienable by ANY government, any agency, group or individual, and that any entity that tries to abridge this freedom is rightfully subject to any necessary penalty including termination and obliteration.  I also believe that any tax-exempt group making any political moves whatsoever (including influencing the content of any civil law or the holder of or candidate for any public office, appointed or elected, or the voting behavior of any citizen) should automatically, permanently lose their tax exempt status.  I also believe that any religious institution acting as an agent of the government (receiving any public funding) must be required to conform to public law and regulation, including medical services, schooling, social services, adoption services, etc., or cease to receive public funding.  The same principle applies to those operating under a business or service license--licensees must conform to public standards of pay, benefits, and availability of their services to clients, or lose their licenses.  If your religion does not permit you to treat all law-abiding citizens with equal respect and dignity, then you have no place serving the public and no right to be licensed to do so.  It is also my opinion that you can't truthfully call yourself "Christian" either, but that is a religious argument better left for another venue.  In any case, if you are unable to treat us all equally you should go to work for your religion and serve like-minded people privately.  

I question whether the government should take any notice of anyone's relationships, beyond parent/minor child, but since it does, it should treat all citizens equally when it does.  If we are going to recognize a male/female marriage which has no possibility of reproduction, then there is no reason to deny same-gender marriage, and our courts have repeatedly defined marriage as a fundamental right.  Fundamental.  Even life-sentence prisoners may marry.  I do not indulge quibbling about the word "marriage".  It has a multitude of religious definitions, true, but it also has a legal definition, which already does not include some religious ones.  English is a precise language, and giving something a different name gives it a different status, at the minimum.  "Marriage" is the word used in our laws about a committed relationship, and in our contracts.  It already has multiple definitions, including religious, cooking, and metallurgical ones; look it up, if you don't believe me.  In no way would the meaning of "marriage" be changed by including almost any intimate union of persons, objects, or materials.  It is rather a situation of applying a word with the proper meaning to already existing spiritual and personal situation, and making the laws conform.

Are gay people asking for special treatment?  Assuredly some are.  So are some Black people and some Christian people and some Muslim people and some _________(fill in any sub-category of human you wish) people.

Should you be able to fire gay people for their sexuality?  Hmmm.  Well, yes, if you can fire someone for his skin color, or for having two eyes or only one nose.

Homophobia is a dangerous mental illness. Its promulgation and enforcement lead to mental derangement and deaths of innocent children, and homophobes should be shunned by reasonable people just as any other harmful irrational person is.  Saying that you believe God wants it so should not save you from public disdain or opprobrium, or legal action,  and it definitely will not save you from God's.  

[ken barber]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tcyrchncs

[Jeikor]

Usually I don't like to post in this section because it sometimes gets rather nasty but this one has been a very calm discussion. I think it is because so far everyone is in basic agreement with the differences being to a degree not polar opposites.

 

I was a little surprised at a few of Roland's opinions until I read his reasoning. To give a basis of where I come from: I am bi, married to a woman with four children and a Christian (I am thinking that some sections of the Bible were not translated verbatim but interpreted through the views of the time).

 

I am not going to do a point by point because I basically agree with those who already have. I thought Roland stated the points quite well.

To Anjobranco- unfortunately in several states of the USA we have what are called right to work; a company can fire an employee with no reason given so it is hard to prove that they are fired for sexual orientation. Also to the marriage question your country seems to have better and different definitions. In the US a civil union is more like your civil marriage.

 

I think everyone should be able to have a civil union/marriage and if you want a religious ceremony find a denomination that allows it as several now due. I for one would not want someone officiating my marriage because they were forced. To me that would take away from  my celebration of our love for one another.

 

To tkyrchncs- you are right 'Christians' should be tolerate of those who do not believe the same or not call themselves Christian. Jesus had no problem calling a tax collector to be one of his followers and they were considered traitors and the lowest of the low. WWJD- Jesus would have served gay people just the same as he did everyone else.

[Benji]

Eh... These are just my opinions on the matter nothing more or less.

 

All people should have the same rights as everyone else. Should you have a right to deny services based on religious beliefs? Sure you should. You should also have the maturity and common sense to know how that will effect your business once word gets out.

 

Honestly, an adult person should be able to put their own personal beliefs aside for the betterment of society as a whole when it comes down to conducting business.

 

I guess it was best put by an unnamed philosopher who once said "Can't we all just . . . Get ALONG?"

[Rilbur]

I guess it was best put by an unnamed philosopher who once said "Can't we all just . . . Get ALONG?"

 

What fun would that be.